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Weather Discussion

Some Midweek Wet Weather

Posted 9 AM Tuesday - Dave Longley - It wouldn't be the middle of the week if we didn't have some unsettled weather to talk about.  Actually, a pretty messy weathermap greets us this morning, with a warm front to our south, and a long area of wet weather from the Ohio Valley all the way down into Texas.  An upper level low pressure area over the Southwest will eject out and head out way, bringing increasing chances of rain for tonight and Wednesday.

The initial surge of moisture coming at us this morning is fighting some very dry air.  Precipitation will eventually make it in here this afternoon.  We likely see some rain, sleet and/or snow.  The reason for this mix is that when the precipitation evaporates in the air above us, the air will cool back below freezing.  So a light mixture is likely this afternoon, but ground temperatures should make it above freezing, meaning just wet roads for the evening commute. 

Light rain showers are likely tonight, with some light icing possible north and east of Syracuse across the Adirondacks and parts of the Mohawk Valley.  I'm thinking this will be a marginal icing situation, so there shouldn't be any major travel problems.

Low pressure, which will be the surface reflection of that upper level thing coming at us from the Southwest will move into Pennsylvania Wednesday.  That low will do a good job at shoving the warm air in here tomorrow, and we still think temperatures tomorrow could get up to 50 or so. 

As that low deepens and moves to our east Wednesday night, cold air will likely get sucked down our way, changing rain to snow.  These are always tough forecasts, as we try to determine if we'll be cold enough for snow, and have enough moisture around for it to amount to anything.  Right now, I would expect a couple inches of wet snow by the time we get up Thursday morning.  As the storm strengthens, it will set us up for a windy start to Spring Thursday with snow showers.  Afternoon temperatures Thursday should be in the mid 30s, so I wouldn't expect much accumulation.

That storm will end up taking up residence across southeast Canada right into the Easter weekend.  This will suppress the jet stream to our south through the weekend, meaning temperatures will remain unseasonably cold.  Most medium range models don't indicate any significant snows for the Northeast.  But....the Euro from last night does have the possibility of some significant snows Sunday night into Monday.  That's just one run, and I'm not ready to jump onto that bandwagon yet.  Today's model runs should start to shed some more light on that.  For now, we're keeping the cold forecast with some sun and flurries into Monday.

Dave

Published Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:42 AM by dlongley

Comments

 

Sal said:

So Dave, is there any signs of any true spring like weather moving into NYS?  It seems everywhere I look, there's indications of below normal temps right through the end of March.
March 18, 2008 12:20 PM
 

dlongley said:

Hey Sal,

I just looked at the teleconnections going out, and after this little blip downward in the NAO, things will trend back toward neutral.  PNA is a non-issue as it stays negative.  A huge block in the Atlantic is our undoing now, making things cold into early next week.  That should ease some heading toward late next week, so we'll see if the polar vortex can get kicked out of SE Canada and we can start warming.  There's not much snow to melt, so all we need is a south wind.

You know, I was thinking yesterday.  2 weeks ago the models were forecasting cold and snow for us.  I would have expected a ground cover of snow for Syracuse.  That's not the case, although we do have the cold.  It always seems as though the models are playing catch up to the sun.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that the models aren't advertising any big warmup or turn to Spring, but we could end up a bit better in the long run than what they're predicting today.

Dave
March 18, 2008 1:34 PM
 

Sal said:

Thanks Dave.  Your news is a bit encouraging.  
March 18, 2008 2:09 PM
 

Scott said:

Dave/Jim
Have you got a look at the next run of the Euro yet. I know that you have said this has been your stalwart this season,just wondered if it still shows significant snow around Monday.  As always, thanks for your time doing this blog, because I'll bet that you really don't have to as part of your job, and it is just extra work for you. Just wanted to let you know that we appreciate it.
March 18, 2008 2:39 PM
 

dlongley said:

Hey Scott, haven't seen the new Euro yet.  Should be in, in another hour or so.  Thanks for the words.  As you can see, I left work 3 hours ago, and I'm still blogging.  I like how I can jot things down in here as I see them through the day, and not have to write up an involved story.  Glad you like it!  

Flood watch is in effect for all of central New York for Tonight through Thursday morning.  Big time rain occurring right now across the Deep South/Miss. Valley into the Midwest.  Lots of flooding in Dallas.  This slow moving front, with all this moisture, will move over us Wednesday.  Could see an inch or more of rain with some poor drainage flooding.

Noticed now that we're getting some light precipitation, evaporation has lowered the temp from 49 earlier this afternoon, down into the low 40s.  Isn't evaporation cool!

Dave
March 18, 2008 3:00 PM
 

dlongley said:

Also, if you're into tornadoes/severe weather, be sure to check out http://www.spc.noaa.gov  I've been doing a lot of reading today to hone up on severe weather season.  This strong jet could have a say in our weather come the warmer time of year.  The upper low coming out of Mexico is impressive to say the least.  You can get a cool water vapor image at http://weather.cod.edu/satellite/regional/southcentral-wv.gif

-Dave
March 18, 2008 3:04 PM
 

dlongley said:

Scott- Just took a look at the 12Z Euro and it has a strong area of low pressure near the Delmarva at 8 AM Monday.  That's the slowest and most developed solution.  I don't have access to 850mb temperatures, but I would guess it would be a rain/snow situation for us, probably trending more toward snow.

The Canadian and UKMET have a low developing off the coast on Sunday and then moving out to sea.  A non-issue for us, but again there is something indicated along the coast over the weekend.

Neither the GFS nor any of the 12Z ensemble members indicated much semblance of anything developing along the coast.  The new 18Z GFS now has a low in the western Atlantic Ocean Monday.  Still not affecting us, but starting to show up nonetheless.  

The uncanny consistency of the Euro showing this storm does have me nervous.  At this point I would look for something to develop along the coast this weekend, but it's way too early to say what, if any, impact it'll have on us.

Off to bed.  I'll have more in the morning.

Dave
March 18, 2008 5:28 PM
 

Dan said:

Dave, who do you have in your final four NCAA tournament bracket?
March 18, 2008 6:12 PM
 

Tom said:

Ok. I know the person above me is NOT Wayne Mahar. But anyway......................

Wow. If we get the storm on Monday, we could have an easy 2 feet of snow in the March 20-25 timeframe, I think.
March 18, 2008 8:30 PM
 

Tom said:

Ok, here is some backup for the two feet of snow predicton.

Thursday: 3"-5" of new snow
Friday-Saturday: 1"-2" of new snow
Sunday-Monday: 6"-12" of new snow (if we get the storm)
Tuseday: 2"-4" of new snow

Total Snow Accumulation: 12"-23"
March 18, 2008 8:41 PM
 

Capt Dave said:

Think Boating not snow
March 19, 2008 1:43 AM
 

dlongley said:

Flood watches remain in effect for areas from Syracuse southward.  We could see upward of an inch of rain by the time things wind down and change to snow tonight.

We could pick up an inch or so of slushy wet snow later tonight and early Thursday, but the big story will be the wind.  Sustained winds of 20-30 mph are likely Thursday with higher gusts.  There really shouldn't be much in the way of snow accumulation Thursday.

Overall, the weekend will be quiet with sun.  Temperatures will remain well below normal, with highs only in the mid 30s.  We should be in the mid 40s!

As for the late weekend, early next week storm.  The Euro is still holding on to it, but it's a bit farther east now.  Most likely a miss for us.  No other model has anything as deep as the Euro, but more of the 12 GFS Ensemble members are showing a deep storm along the coast Monday/Tuesday.  So, at this point, I would look for something to develop along the coast later Sunday or Monday, but it could very well end up just to our east and more of a problem for Boston/NYC.

-Dave
March 19, 2008 6:36 AM
 

Tom said:

Ok. Here is my new forecast,

Thursday-Saturday: 2"-4"
Sunday-Teuseday: 4"-8"

Total Snow Accumulation: 6"-12"
March 19, 2008 7:01 AM
 

Kris said:

The people who think were going to get snow this week and next week might want to look at the models.  Any backlash snow tonight into thurs if it even does snow will be a slushy inch of snow at best over hills/untreated surfaces.  As far as any lake effect over the next few days, Very minimal, no accumulation.  The models are showing a very weak light spray of flurries off and on that will amount to nothing over the weekend.  The sun will be bright and the air will be dry.  Any snow that does fall will burn off by late morning.  Now for the storm.  The Euro has been right maybe once this year on a storm for the east coast while the others were only hinting of a storm.  As days got closer, 4-5 days out they started to come together in agreement.  Well, the models are showing zero for the ny area.  Maybe a storm for new england/nyc but it isnt impressive and will most likely be a rain maker as we have seen all winter long.  So before you start acting like an idiot and posting false info,be sure to have some science and facts behind your fairy tale.  Spring is here.  Before the blocvking departs next week, which in the mean time will deliver us cool air and lots and lots of sunshine.  Once that blocking departs next week, a very mild pattern will take over which should be the story for this time of the year.  We have had cold/snowy weather since November 1.  We are a few inches short of our average.  It has been a long winter.  Lets start to focus on spring.  Chemlawn is spraying my yard on Tuesday next week.
Think Spring!!!!!
March 19, 2008 7:35 AM
 

Paul B. said:

I just checked the long range and boy is there a warm up coming our way after thursdau next week.  I see 50's and 60's.  Obviously it isnt the most accurate but it does shed some light on what Kris said about a major warm up after next week!!!!
Golf clubs are ready to Birdie.
March 19, 2008 7:41 AM
 

snplw said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, but it is the current blog.  Dave, do you realize on the main Blizzard 93 page under the "Winter Photos" block both links go to Feb 2008 pics? Just FYI.  I was just going to go back and see if anyone submitted personal pics from that awesome storm for me anyways, my one and only blizzard.  Thanks
March 19, 2008 7:49 AM
 

Bonnie said:

Where do I find a long-range forecast for temps that far out?  I know weather.com has one, but I do not ever trust their temps.  They always seem to be around 10 degrees cooler, even in the summer.
March 19, 2008 9:12 AM
 

Theresa said:

Kris, wish I could see my lawn, it's still under a foot of snow and ice! I'm in Hannibal, and feel lucky just to have the last of the snow came off the roof of my house. I'll be doing the regular spring routine, breaking down the snowbanks to get it to melt as soon as possible. I'm ready for spring anytime now, even if it means mud!
March 19, 2008 10:56 AM
 

snplw said:

Link to Blizzard 93 pics has been fixed.  Thanks Dave, or whoever.  Now I know why it was going to Feb 2008 pics, there are no blizzard pics in the folders.
March 19, 2008 11:23 AM
 

Sal said:

I too would like to know what sites provide long range temp trends.  Like Bonnie, I believe weather.com can't be trusted and even accuweather.com changes it's daily high temps in a dramatic fashion from day to day.
March 19, 2008 11:35 AM
 

Eric said:

Dave,
I'm just wondering... When you said that later next week, we should start to see a warm-up, will it sat warmer, or will it get cold again. I know I'm probably asking a question that's hard to answer at present, so if your answer is "I don't know," that's fine. I know you guys are working your tails off to try to get an accurate forecast, and it's greatly appreciated.
:o)
March 19, 2008 2:49 PM
 

Paul B said:

http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi?Submit=Go&sta=KSYR&state=NY
15 day temps/weather

&

I use this link to help with lake effect predicitons besides the normal data maps.
http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi?Submit=Go&sta=KSYR&state=NY
March 19, 2008 3:04 PM
 

Paul B said:

http://www.accuweather.com/forecast-15day.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&zipcode=13090&metric=0

Im sorry.  Yes the long range temps change each day but thats because they are using the GFS models which also change day to day.  What you want to look for is consistency.  A 15 day is a long range,meaning inaccurate.  Use it as a guide.
March 19, 2008 3:12 PM
 

dlongley said:

Following up on Kris's comments....it's still looking like no storm for us, but there will likely be something forming in the western Atlantic, but too far east to bother us.  As I wrote this morning, most likely a Boston/NYC issue, so a heads up if you're heading there for Easter weekend and early next week.

Yeah, lake effect will be a non-issue, other than a few flurries Thursday and Friday.  We just can't get real organized lake effect this time of year because the sun is so strong, and the updrafts it creates, disrupts the lake effect circulations.  We could see some flurries for a time Friday night, with maybe a minor accumulation.  Should be a bright weekend, just on the cool side.

Now for next week.  I was going to blog about this, but didn't want to start a Spring firestorm.  I do see a nice stretch of weather the second half of next week, where afternoon highs should get into the 60s.  There's no snow on the ground from SYR southward, so once we get the jet lifting to our north next week, and south winds across the eastern US, yeah, I think we'll warm.

I see the links to AccuWx above, and yes, their forecasts are 100% computer model driven.  The model flip/flops and so does the forecast.  We use that information, but we also look at the trend in the longer range forecasts over many runs to come up with a forecast, and the trend I'm seeing is that once that block over SE Canada breaks down, boom, the jet lifts north.  I don't think this is a lock-in pattern, but instead transitory, where we warm for a bit, then turn cooler.  But then again, I very rarely remember the switch being flipped from winter right into full-fledged Spring.  

We'll see if this trend holds true over the next couple of days.

-Dave
March 19, 2008 4:15 PM
 

Tom said:

This sucks! Sunny weather is forcasted while we are still short on snow.

Hey Storm Team. What do you expect the seasonal snowfall to be at this point?
March 19, 2008 6:45 PM
 

Tom said:

Oh and by the way, if anyone is going to post "Face it Tom, spring is here." All I will say is "I can't face it. I hate spring!"
March 19, 2008 6:53 PM
 

Eric said:

Thanks for the info on next week, Dave... That actually made my evening (I'm kinda burnt out from all these ice-storms we've gotten lately).
To Tom: I'm just being a smart-aleck when I say this - Face it, winter's over!!! (I couldn't resist)
March 19, 2008 8:08 PM
 

Tom said:

To Erick:
Ok i'll face it. Winter's over. Ah well, I hope old man winter is saving up all his energy for next season. After all, next season he has 2 friday-the-13ths to use!
March 19, 2008 9:09 PM
 

Scott said:

Good morning,
Long range forecast with warmer temps. and spring finally arriving sounds great. I'm all for it.
However, Tom should not give up on winter just yet. Things can change in a hurry around here this time of year. Remember the winter storm last year around Tax day (mid April). If memory serves, we got around 8 inches down here in Geneva

Dave, as always thanks for the time and details you put in your updates/blogs. Here's to hoping we  don't need to put the plows back on this season.
March 20, 2008 5:59 AM
 

Tom said:

Oh cool! I just checked the NWS website, and they said that 3"-7" of new snow is expected from now to tomorrow morning. TAKE THAT ERICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and by the way, I think that next season is going to be very snowy because old man winter has 2 friday-the-13ths to use!
March 20, 2008 6:49 AM
 

Tom said:

Oh and by the way (again), the 2009-2010 season might start out snowy because there is another friday-the-13th to use in November of 2009.

To sum it up, the 2008-2009 season will be very snowy with Febuary and March having friday-the-13ths and the 2009-2010 season will start out snowy with a friday-the-13th in November of 2009.

HOW ABOUT THAT SPRING LOVERS?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 20, 2008 6:56 AM
 

Eric said:

Tom- Hate to tell ya this, but they lowered it to 1"-3" with higher elevations south of Syracuse. Looks like I get the last laugh, for now.
March 20, 2008 11:55 AM
 

Ray Olmsted said:

Hey Dave, What happned to the northeast radar view we used to get On (WSYR
March 22, 2008 10:50 AM
 

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March 29, 2008 12:57 PM
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