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Weather Discussion

Winter Storm Warning Today and Tonight

Posted 7:20 AM Tuesday, Dave Longley - Boy, this one isn't an easy one, but I think we've got a good handle on things now.  Rain has changed to snow, and from Syracuse northward through mid-afternoon, I think we'll end up with a few flurries.  South of Syracuse, in roughly a line from Watkins Glen, to Ithaca, Cortland and Norwich, it will be messy today with snow, sleet and freezing rain falling.  A significant build-up of ice is likely south of Syracuse today. 

By late this afternoon, heavier precipitation will overspread all of CNY, including Syracuse.  Honestly, it could fall as anything, but we think primarily snow and sleet to start.  We'll see a transition to freezing rain, with a significant ice buildup is very likely early tonight.  The wildcard in this is just how cold temperatures get today before that widespread heavy precipitation moves in late today. 

Everything I've looked at, from the NAM and GFS, to our in-house mesoscale models, indicates enough warming after midnight tonight, that we see a transition to just rain.  Temperatures could get to 40 degrees or better when we head out Wednesday morning.  If anything, out models can sometimes be too slow in warming us, compared to reality, and given all the precipitation heading our way, I certainly hope this is the case.

The rain showers could end entirely when we head out the door Wednesday morning as a dry slot in the precipitation moves into CNY.

Certainly a very changeable forecast.  I'll be updating throughout my shift here.

Dave

Published Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:19 AM by dlongley

Comments

 

Rico said:

If rain does indeed fall after midnight in Syracuse, what do you expect for the Watertown area? Once again, I have to drive to Ft. Drum on the heels of a storm.
March 4, 2008 6:53 AM
 

Chris said:

Wow.  I had to shovel 2-4 inches of snow this am from my driveway in Lpool.  I have a friend iwest of here and he had 8 inches of snow in his driveway.  Thanks for the accurate forecast last night Dave E and Jim T.  I understand its a tricky forecast but come on.  That was just plain old poor forecasting.  Why were you forecasting so much snow when everyone else had an inch of slushy snow?  Lets hear from everyone on just how tricky that  forecast was for the boys and how I'm being rude.  It puzzles me why the forecast was that far off when all the other forecasts were spot on.  So I guess it wasnt difficult for everyone!!!!!
Is the icing really going to be that prolonged this evening or is this just another forecast thats way off.  Yes we will see some icing tonight but as we have learned all year, regardless what the models show,the warm air keeps winning.  Will the icy precip only last for a few hours?  
March 4, 2008 7:02 AM
 

Rico Suave said:

At 1201am tonight, just before you see the watertown exit, just before you put your foot on the brake, right after you sneeze and just before you change the radio channel, you should be in some icy weather.  Please, come on.  They are having a difficult time pin ponting because of so many variables.  Watertown is no different.  Expect icy travel.  Its that simple, if it changes over to rain earlier, well, better travel for you.  If it doesnt, I suggest holding off on your drive ubntil it chages over!  
March 4, 2008 7:07 AM
 

BCK said:

Chris = Dork
March 4, 2008 7:18 AM
 

sandy said:

Dont cry Chris
March 4, 2008 7:33 AM
 

MC said:

Interesting how every single storm we've had this winter has been totally overestimated and blown out of proportion. I think there has been way too much reliance on new and untested complex computer models. Predicting the weather that way is almost like playing the lottery. I think a good forecaster would look at what happened the rest of the winter - low snow amounts, a bit of frozen precip, and then the overrunning air warming things up so we just get plain old boring rain. There won't be a big ice storm tonight. It will turn to rain quickly, and we won't get snow. We had less than a 1/8 of a inch on the ground today in Auburn. Far cry from what the models were saying.

And don't even start hyping this supposed storm this weekend. It's going to follow the same inland runner path as all the rest. A big slopfest. It's been a joke of a winter for snow.
March 4, 2008 7:39 AM
 

Carolyn said:

Gee, if everyone else is so accurate, maybe Chris needs to watch a different channel! I live in Liverpool, and my driveway was empty this morning, so must be the forecast is highly changeable and not so easy to pinpoint.

Thanks for the great work keeping is informed Dave and Jim! I'll keep my job though!!!
March 4, 2008 7:44 AM
 

Darrell said:

Dave, how does the prospect for a changeover to rain tonight look for the Finger Lakes? Do you think they will warm up as quickly as Syracuse, or will there be more ice before the changeover?
March 4, 2008 7:57 AM
 

dlongley said:

I compared the balloon soundings this morning across the Northeast, and the temps observed were similar to what was forecast by the models, so they have a good handle on the strength of the cold push we're seeing.  Everything looks good on the "lull" into early this afternoon for SYR northward.  I see were at 32 as of 9 in SYR.

Impressive dry slot moving north through the Ohio Valley.  That could spare us significant ice accumulations.  Check it out here: http://radar.weather.gov/ridge/Conus/RadarImg/centgrtlakes.gif    Not sure yet if it gets here, but something to keep an eye on.

New data coming in now.  Time to roll up the sleeves and dig in!

-Dave
March 4, 2008 8:07 AM
 

dlongley said:

Darrell,  The prospect for a changeover to rain for the Finger Lakes is pretty darned near 100%  The surface low is going to move right up over BGM by 7 AM Wednesday and that should guarantee a switchover to rain everywhere.  Also, the Finger Lakes always tend to warm up easier than SYR and points north and east.

-Dave
March 4, 2008 8:09 AM
 

dlongley said:

Here's some more "science" behind today's forecast.  The Storm Prediction Center (the guys and gals who keep an eye on severe weather, from tornados to snowstorms) has issued a discussion for our weather.  

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/md/md0343.html

Dave
March 4, 2008 8:19 AM
 

Ryan said:

Thank you Dave L for your "above and beyond" weather updates!!!!!!!
March 4, 2008 8:57 AM
 

Rico said:

Rico Suave: How brave to insult someone while hiding behind a screen name, on a weather forum nonetheless. Did it ever occur to you that I may need to decide this morning whether or not I'll be driving tomorrow, and that decision will have an impact on the project schedule? I will now go home and cry in the shadow of your manliness.

Dave: Any info you can give me on whether tonight's push of warm air is forescast to make its way to the Watertown area would be appreciated... even if the answer is "I don't know".
March 4, 2008 9:07 AM
 

dlongley said:

Rico - They will see ice in the Watertown area right up until things wind down right near sunset.  Their thawing is going to be minimal.  Things may start to get better by mid morning up that way.  The precip will certainly be lighter.

-Dave
March 4, 2008 9:40 AM
 

Schoolmom said:

Yep, another close the schools, empty the stores, everybody panic and it amounts to nothing forecast.  Why bother to even try .
March 4, 2008 9:55 AM
 

Peter said:

I wonder how people survived before TV, weather forecasts and doppler radar.  The way people on here complain, one would think that weather forecasts are a certainty, just after death and taxes.  Grow up and find something else to get involved in.  And Rico, nobody cares about your drive from Watertown- except you.  Thanks Channel 9.  Don't let the weather blog losers bother you.
March 4, 2008 10:15 AM
 

Timothy D. said:

Hey schoolmom, don't you have to get in your minivan to pick up the kids from soccer practice?  Don't forget to take that Kerry sticker off your car too.  
March 4, 2008 10:16 AM
 

BlackStallion said:

The only problem we had was we were expecting a "T-1" of snow.
We got 4". in the south east.
We live in Upstate Ny. We expect it.
Have a nice day storm team!
March 4, 2008 10:27 AM
 

Skwerlboy said:

Looks like the moisture building up through Kentucky and the Ohio Valley is getting bigger, moving this way.  Will be interesting later!!!
Just a quick question off topic a little...where can I go to see Lightning data (besides weather bug...don't like thiers)?  Not just for here but around the country?  Thanks.  
March 4, 2008 12:59 PM
 

Rico said:

Peter: I was hoping that my drive would be broadcast as tonight's public interest story. But thanks to you, I now realize that likely won't materialize. I appreciate you for speaking the truth. Sometimes it hurts, but it's good to know that there are people like you fighting ignorance at every turn. Asking a weather-related question on a weather blog... what was I thinking? I beg for your forgiveness.

Dave: Thanks for the info. You guys at Channel 9 are a cut above the rest.
March 4, 2008 1:09 PM
 

Rico said:

March 4, 2008 1:20 PM
 

Schoolmom said:

See, no big deal.   I could have been to work on time and not had to hire a sitter for the kids home from school.  35 degrees and only wet roads here.  Look at the money and time wasted because of all the hype that amounted to nothing.  I'm glad you guys enjoy your work, but somethings wrong when all the warnings etc go out and people get all prepared and all and then nothing happens.   This has happened many times this winter so far.
March 4, 2008 1:26 PM
 

Name said:

Schoolmom, what is wrong with you? For at least 24 hours they've said there would be a lull in the precip during the day today, starting up again in the afternoon. That's exactly what happened, and now, at almost 3:00, it's pushing back into Onondaga county. The winter storm warning is for what is going to happen this afternoon into tonight. You should try taking a moment to actually read it. It's not anyone's fault but your own you hired a baby sitter and wasted your money. This is a blog for talking about the weather, not complaining about your personal issues.
March 4, 2008 1:55 PM
 

fatschoolmom said:

SORRY I HAD TO SIT AT HOME AND EAT TWINKIES!
March 4, 2008 2:56 PM
 

Jason said:

13 WHAM in Rochester, your sister station, says that places east of Rochester will get over 1/2 inch of ice. Do you think it could remain all ice over night in southern Madison County? What are the chances? How is the weather looking for the morning comunte for school tomorrow morning?
March 4, 2008 3:20 PM
 

Mike said:


Dave: How's the morning commute looking for the Phoenix/Baldwinsville area tommorow morning? Do you think the warmup after midnight will keep the ice from becoming to much of a problem in the morning commute?

March 4, 2008 3:36 PM
 

Sal said:

NWS says areas east of Rochester could see between 1/2 and 3/4 inch of ice tonight....more in the southern tier and the Finger Lakes region.  As json points out, many Rochester tv outlets are reporting the half inch or more of ice.  Something no one is mentioning is what role the winds will play in this.  It doesn't take much of a breeze with that much ice to bring down power lines and tree limbs.  Do you guys at channel 9 have any insight into wind speeds tonight with all that ice on the power lines?
March 4, 2008 3:49 PM
 

Darrell said:

Skwerlboy, here's another site for lightning strikes:

http://www.intellicast.com/Storm/Severe/Lightning.aspx

That's the one I always use, but honestly I think I like Rico's better!
March 4, 2008 3:51 PM
 

Darrell said:

Sal, even the NWS still hasn't got this one figured out. The forecasts issued by the Buffalo office (Wayne, N Cayuga counties) call for up to 3/4" of ice with temps never getting out of the 20s, even tomorrow, whereas those issued by Binghamton (Onondaga, Seneca, S Cayuga) call for temps to go above freezing after midnight with just rain. Quite a difference considering how close these counties are to each other.
March 4, 2008 4:13 PM
 

Zach said:

A very complex storm unfolding. I know this is hard but just how far north of Syracuse do you expect the FRZRA to changeover to rain?
March 4, 2008 4:43 PM
 

Zach said:

Sorry for the second post in a row but I also see on the GFS model that the storm goes through SE NY instead of right overhead like evrryone here in Syracuse is forecasting.
March 4, 2008 4:48 PM
 

dlongley said:

Update at 5:55 PM - As you probably have noticed we are not playing up the big ice accumulations for us here in CNY.  I've still got 32.7 degrees here in Cicero.  Where's the cold air going to come from?  Check out http://weather.cod.edu/wx/public/sfc/states/ny.sfc.gif  If I was forecasting significant icing, it would be from northern NY and from Rochester back toward Buffalo.  Especially with the low forecast now to take a jog southeastward through eastern PA.  Check out the dewpoints across western NY in that image I linked to above.  The dewpoint is the number in the lower left.  In western NY they've just gotten into the shallow cold AND dry air which is a good set up for freezing rain.  Their dewpoints are in the teens.  Ours is in the mid 20s.  If I were in ROC or BUF now, I'd be getting nervous.

Also, our 850 temps (5000 feet AGL) still are forecast to get above freezing tonight, while ROC/BUF do not.  

Honestly, the radar looks paltry now to our southwest.  The stuff in northern Ohio should miss us to the west as it stays just north of the upper low track.  The precip that gets us is in southern OH and WV now.  Still a ways to go.

-Dave
March 4, 2008 5:04 PM
 

jake said:

Guys, give up, you haven't been accurate all year.
March 4, 2008 6:00 PM
 

schoolmom said:

The schools could have stayed open, saved the disticts big $$$'s in state aid.  Roads have been fine in CNY all day.   All the hype and scare for nothing.   There has to be a better way.
March 4, 2008 6:24 PM
 

Bonnie said:

Schoolmom, not many schools closed today and the ones that did was because some places were icy this morning.  Why don't you complain to the schools instead of on here?  The Storm Team has repeatedly said that we were going to get a lot of precip, but it was too difficult to determine what TYPE of precip would fall, and that just a few degrees difference would determine what we would get.  If you're so into school, why don't you go back yourself to become a meteorologist and find that better way you're dreaming of?
March 4, 2008 6:37 PM
 

MARK D. said:

light glazing of ice here in central square as of 7:30 p.m. air temp is 30 degrees. i stepped outside and it doesn't feel all that cold. hopefully the heavy freezing rain will miss us.
March 4, 2008 6:41 PM
 

schoolteacher said:

Schoolmom calm down!  At least where I teach we had school and I noticed not many schools were closed this am.  What the heck is your problem?  Sounds like your upset that you had to cough up $ for a babysitter rather than play on the side of caution and keep your kids safe.  Oh yeah, that's right if they went to school you would have had free babysitting.  Is that all the schools are to you?
March 4, 2008 6:47 PM
 

Paul in Mexico said:

What is the weather? It's too dark to see.
March 4, 2008 7:44 PM
 

Jim Teske said:

8:45 PM update....It took a while but the sleet and freezing rain did finally make it to Syracuse.  When I left work at 7 PM I had to scrape a light (1/16") accumulation of ice from my car.  A look at a current weather map shows sub freezing temperatures all the way down to north central PA so the threat for frozen precipitation will be with us for a while.  It looks like snow is bcoming less and less likely tonight.  Too much warm air coming in aloft already and that's why we didn't play the snow up too much on the newscasts this evening.

With low pressure at the surface headed to BGM later tonight and the low at 925 mb moving almost right over us I gotta believe we will eventually climb above freezing here in Syracuse after midnight.  Next to western NY (like Dave Longley mentioned) I think areas northeast of Syracuse could stay icy for a while tonight.  Some of our very local scale computer models we use keep areas from eastern Oswego and Oneida Counties and points north the temperatures may stay below freezing all night long.  If that turns out to be the case then a half inch of ice is possible in these areas.  Check out Dave E. on the 11 PM newscast for any updates.

Jim
March 4, 2008 7:51 PM
 

Superintendent said:

Hey Schoolmom.  You can sit back and complain, but you need to open your eyes!!!  Think what you want, but decisions are made based on road conditions not only in urban areas, but the countryside as well.  School near the major roadways may be clear, but the country roads could be undriveable.  Decisions are made for the whole district, not a select few whiners like yourself.  Complain all you want, but if schools were not closed or delayed for the benefit of all students' saftey and your child was hurt in an accident you would be screaming"why were schools not closed".  Then we would have to hear from your lawyer.  get over it.  Better safe than sorry.  Ch. 9 weather group are the best in the area.  Keep up the great work.
March 4, 2008 8:19 PM
 

Yes said:

Right on super!  It's like damned of you do and damned of you don't.  These people like schoolmom piss and moan about everything the school does.  She is however forgetting that it is because of school that she has a job in the first place.  You know the good old education that her teachers gave her so that she could read and write this blog?   Put a cork in it schoolmom.  Know your role!
March 4, 2008 8:52 PM
 

Shawn said:

Oh Mr. Longley--What can you tell us about a "Possible" Nor' Easter here Friday/Saturday now that this icy mess is done.  I've heard rumblings of this over the local airwaves and different websites.  
March 5, 2008 3:20 AM
 

Larry said:

Shawn-they just got this one figured out as the storm has already been over us.  Just wait tii Friday night when the storm is overhead.
March 5, 2008 4:31 AM
 

Mike said:

I agree with Shawn, I just found this on Accu Weather regarding this weekend.

Larry--Maybe people would like a little more info. thats all.  What's the big deal?

http://www.accuweather.com/news-story.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&zipChg=1&article=6
March 5, 2008 4:47 AM
 

MC said:

Shawn - All models trending the same as they have been doing with all the storms this winter. really strong ridge in the south east (thanks to la nina) keeps pushing the storms to the west, which lets that warm air come up with the storms and turn precip to rain. My guess - lots more rain/slush/hype with this one. Every storm we've had this ENTIRE winter has turned to rain at some point, which shows how warm we've been. Just except a nice winter storm warning with nothing really exciting happening except a cold rain
March 5, 2008 4:59 AM
 

dlongley said:

Update at 6:00 AM Wednesday- Well we warmed to 36 here in SYR, but temps below freezing making for an icy morning north and west of SYR.  Low pressure is tracking up through SE PA, which means we're just about done with the warming, and temperatures will hold steady over the next hour or so.  As of 6 this morning, the back edge to the steadier precip runs from Penn Yan to Binghamton, and is heading northeast.  I would think this should move through 7-8 AM.  We'll get a break, then the backlash precip will fall as snow through the morning and early afternoon.

Also, severe thunderstorms headed toward NYC.

-Dave
March 5, 2008 5:09 AM
 

Sal said:

We're slippin' and sliddin' in Lyons this morning.  Nothing we can't handle but enough to delay the opening school a couple of hours.  There's probably about 1/8 to 1/4 inch of ice on the trees here.  So far, little in the wind department.  That may have prevented us from any downed power lines or tree limbs.  It'll be a slow go this morning in Wayne County but it could have been worse.
And now I'm sure all the talk will turn to the pending friday night/ Sat east coast storm.    
March 5, 2008 5:20 AM
 

Ryan said:

Good morning Dave.  I know where your focus currently is at.  But to add to the conversation on another storm this weekend, its quite funny but if you look at the 06 nam run, the last frame is Saturday morning and then it recycles to our current storm and it is literally the same path and set up as our current storm.  The gfs has the storm running east of the Apps but it seems that the nam has a more westerly track.  At this point I know its another nail biter until we get closer.  I just thought the paths of both storms are uncanny in the nam runs.
March 5, 2008 5:24 AM
 

Neil said:

You guys suck once again. This is the fourth time this season a storm was mischaracterized and more useless headlines generated. Keep practicing your voodoo science as long as somebody is paying out, right?
March 5, 2008 6:00 AM
 

Sal said:

Well I disagree with Neil's comment.  This has been a very tough year to forecast storms and storm tracks and precipitation type from the storms.  This on was no exception.  A few degrees either way and a few miles either way with the storm's track makes all the difference in the world.  Forecasting weather is a science and nothing is cut and dry.  all the latest computers and h-tech instruments STILL can't help predict something like this storm.  I'm not a weatherman but I do understand the science behind it.  
Hats off to all you guys and girls predicting the weather.  You do a fine job.  Keep up the good work!  I or one, will keep checking back and relying on all of you when I want to know what tomorrow's weather will bring!
March 5, 2008 6:14 AM
 

UpstateNY06 said:

Ice, a little rain, now snowing in Auburn.
March 5, 2008 6:44 AM
 

dlongley said:

Update at 7:44 AM - Light rain is now in Syracuse, with freezing rain in Oswego and northern Cayuga county changing to snow now.  It's a real mess just north of Syracuse with some streets in Oswego being reported as glare ice.  I see Oswego school have now closed.  SUNY Oswego cancelled morning classes, so you know it's bad.

Over the next hour or so, anything liquid will change to sleet and snow.  The backlash moisture could bring a few periods of heavier snow later this morning and early this afternoon, but accumulations should generally be no more than an inch or two.  Gusty winds of 20-30 mph will make it look pretty wintry this afternoon.  Temperatures all the while will drop into the 20s.

-Dave
March 5, 2008 6:47 AM
 

Nature Chris said:

I've got a mix of sleet with some snow in Brewerton. It is 34 degrees at 8:10.
March 5, 2008 7:11 AM
 

Minetto said:

Dave's right - up here in Oswego county we got the ice that was forecast for this storm (about 3/8"). The roads in the country are a mess and now it's snowing. Lost some large branches on a few trees and other trees are bent over from the added weight.

I know you folks to the south have had a wimpy winter, but if you want snow we've had plenty this year and there is still plenty on the ground! We've been XC skiing almost every weekend.
March 5, 2008 8:13 AM
 

Not a hippie said:

Hey schoolmom, don't you have to go vote for Hilary or something?  Wow, talk about a complete loser.  Go eat a pint of ice cream and cry about your life to someone else.   Keep up the good work channel 9.  We support you!
March 5, 2008 8:39 AM
 

Breezy said:

I think that what happened to that man was very wrong and the cops should have just wrestled him to the ground instead of shocking him with the taser.
March 5, 2008 8:44 AM
 

dlongley said:

March 5, 2008 9:21 AM
 

Karen said:

I think the term "STORM" is becoming greatly overused.  Having lived most of my 60 years in CNY, STORM used to be taken seriously as a warning:  make sure you had supplies on hand, make alternate child care and work arrangements,  reconsider travel plans...much as the word BLIZZARD might connotate now.  Anything under a foot in CNY is SNOW!  It might be a weather system, it might be worth being prepared for...but now...the word STORM is like crying wolf:  It's gonna snow...or maybe not.  Perhaps we need to reclassify incoming weather systems.  STORM means nothing now.
March 6, 2008 6:46 PM
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