Welcome to Sign in | Join | Help
in
Back to 9WSYR.COM Your Corner Home Your Corner Blogs Your Corner Forums Your Corner Photos Your Corner Community Calendar

Weather Discussion

Teske's Tidbits (2/9/08) The One About L O N G Range Forecasts

“Never make predictions, especially about the future.”    Yogi Berra

 

The calls or e-mails come in from time to time.  People are looking for a forecast beyond the time frame of our 7 day forecast.  It may be a wedding perhaps a family picnic.  Sometimes it prefaced by a comment about a forecast they’ve already heard:

 

“I saw on weather.com that it’s only supposed to be 55 two weeks from today what do you think……”

 

I’ve gotta give you a ‘buyer beware’ statement: If you have to make a decision based on a forecast that far out you are taking your chances. Now I know some of you are probably thinking people in glass houses shouldn’t be throwing stones (yes, our forecasts aren’t 100% either) but hear me out.  The computer models we use to help make our forecasts  are pretty good a day or two out in time but the chances for error increases the farther out in time you go. Right now I think the edge of the computer model reliability for a specific daily forecast is 6 or 7 days. Our temperature error out that far is around 4 or 5 degrees in any given month. That’s why we don’t go any farther out in time in our daily extended forecast.  We might be able to give a general trend 10 or 14 days out  but typically we will give you a range of days when ‘colder’ or ‘warmer’ weather will be coming.

 

Anyhow, I decided to take a look at the error in the temperatures forecast for some of these really extended forecasts available on the web.  During this past December I looked at Accu-Weather and The Weather Channel’s Syracuse forecasts on the web and here is what I found for a 10 day forecast:

 

Weather Channel 10 day Forecast              8.21 degrees

Accu-Weather 10 Day Forecast                 7.69 degrees

 

This is more than 3 times the error of a typical 1 or 2 day forecast. Sure, during the month there were days when the 10 day forecast was close, within a degree or two but 1/3 of the time the forecast was off by 10 degrees or more and there were a handful of days where the error was 20 degrees or more!  If you have an important event that hinges on the forecast are you going to trust a forecast that could be off by 20 degrees? Lets look at it a different way.  What if you looked at the Storm Team calendar and just picked the normal high temperature for each of the days in December to make a your 10 day forecast?  It’s called a climatological forecast.  Guess what: you would have done a better job over the course of December than The Weather Channel and Accu-Weather!

 

Climatology 10 day Forecast                                  7.28 Degrees

 

Were the December Accu-Weather and Weather Channel numbers a fluke? A while back (May 2006) and I found similar numbers:

 

Weather Channel 10 day Forecast (May 2006)       7.45 degrees

Accu-Weather 10 Day Forecast (May 2006)          7.48 degrees

 

Only Accu-Weather makes specific forecasts 2 weeks out in time and their results were mixed.  Last month their error was 5.77 degrees for a 14 day forecast (better than their 10 day forecast) but when I looked at the same type of forecast in May 2006 the error was almost 10 degrees!

 

Obviously this isn’t a long term, peer reviewed study.  I only looked at two months and I would want to look at more to make a true scientific conclusion. However, even these rough numbers make me wonder if these very specific long, long range forecasts are doing the profession of meteorology as a whole any good. I think sometime in the future the 10 and 14 day forecasts are going to get more reliable but we’re not there yet.

 

The Lake effect Challenge is up to $22 for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society and there are now only 5 days until pitchers and catchers report.

Published Saturday, February 09, 2008 8:42 AM by Jim Teske

Comments

 

Doug said:

Sounds like a conflict I'm familar with - technical accuracy vs business demand.  Take heart ... it's not just your industry.

 
February 9, 2008 9:46 PM
 

Robracer said:

It's 11:25 and front coming through . Visisbility here in Fulton...nil. Down to 27 from 33 5 mins ago.
February 10, 2008 10:25 AM
 

Tim said:

Seeing the forecast for high winds reminded me of a question I was asked by a friend from down state.  His daughter is looking into Oswego State College and they are very worried about the snow and general weather conditions in Oswego during the school year, which has prompted him to spend a lot of time on weather sites watching the Oswego conditions.  He said that he has seen times when the wind chill was warmer than the actual air temperature.  He asked if the lake would cause that effect.  Is it possible for the wind coming off the lake to be warmer than the air inland, and cause the wind chill to read at a higher temperature than that of the air temperature inland?
February 10, 2008 11:33 AM
 

KBC said:

Thanks for that excellent little study Jim. Much appreciated. One of the reasons why I listen to you guys more than the local forecasters here in Rochester, and of course the Weather Channel/Accu Weather type stations, is for your honesty and expertise. Thanks!

-KBC

ps. My Father was a weather forecaster for the Navy in WW2. I think that is where my love for weather comes from.  
February 10, 2008 1:02 PM
 

KBC said:

...oh yeah...and for not giving us all the hype either!  Thanks!
February 10, 2008 1:03 PM
 

mmecca said:

Hoping for a snow day tomorrow......any insight on this....?
February 10, 2008 4:29 PM
 

malone said:

2 hours and 15 minutes to get from Mannsville to Mexico......4:45pm-7:00pm....sweet lake effect!
February 10, 2008 7:55 PM
 

Shawn said:

Driving into work at 630 tonight, here in Onondaga Hill, it is extremly windy!  The stars are out, but anywhere the snow can blow, boy is it!  Judging by the band of lake effect coming into our area right around day break tomorrow and with the wind, I highly doubt schools in Onondaga Country will be open tomorrow.  I'm sure I'll be getting a call from local schools around daybreak (They call to check on the road conditions etc/and to see when plows will be out)

I just looked at a few forecast maps for Wednesday, and it looks like a clipper system is headed our way, but we might be right on the edge of warm air, so it might mix???????  Hopefully Jim and Dave will give us insight once we get through tomorrow!

Drive safe everyone and keep warm!
February 10, 2008 9:06 PM
 

NorthBayLight said:

VERY messy around here (North Bay) this afternoon between Noon and 1:30. Literally couldnt see to drive. Took me about an  hour and a 1/2 to get to Syracuse. 1/2 hour of that time was just to get through Sylvan/Verona Beach. What a mess!
Very windy around here tonight....not a whole lot of snow though. Mostly blowing off of Oneida Lake. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
Hey Weather Team, any idea what tomorrow morning might bring for us here? We're right on the fringes of the 12 to 20, but I"m thinking we're just far enough east to miss those numbers. We'll see!

Let It Snow!
February 10, 2008 9:21 PM
 

Bonnie said:

I'm between Phoenix and Fulton...willing to bet I'm about to get pounded on!
February 10, 2008 9:50 PM
 

Bubba said:

Mecca.  I think you should be happy that you have to go to work.  With the economy the way it is get to work and be grateful you have a job.
February 11, 2008 12:57 PM
 

Dave said:

I would think mmecca is a student. I never worked any where that had snow days. Last snow day I had other than a state of emergancy and closed roads. Was 30 some yrs ago in high school
February 11, 2008 5:23 PM
 

pco_01 said:

MMecca is probably one of those overpaid teachers who wants to stay home.
February 11, 2008 9:15 PM
New Comments to this post are disabled

This Blog

Post Calendar

<February 2008>
SuMoTuWeThFrSa
272829303112
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
2425262728291
2345678

Syndication

Inergize Digital Media This site powered by Inergize Digital Media. The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect the views of this station.