These people need to get some perspective, and a hobby.

...its a misplaced priority so I voted NO.  The vast majority of students will not benefit from this and the only people I've talked to that support this have kids that play football or lacrosse.  The average FM student will never set foot on this field.

I voted yes.  My children and many of your Grandchildren will use this field.  Those worried about a tax hike should look at the schools annual budget.  Notice how it is never really broken out.  Only a few items are acknowledged? That's for a reason.  They don't really want you to see what the money is being used for.  More then half of a school budget goes for salary, benefits and retirees.  What's left over goes to the kids.  At least this I know what I'm getting- a new stadium and turf field THAT WILL BE USED BY THE COMMUNITY, not just a few kids.  If you want to get mad about something get mad at all the time off in the school calender.  How does anything really get taught when the kids are never in school.  Out of a 43 week school calender the kids have 25 FULL weeks and the rest are either 4 days or completely off. If people started to demand schools to be run like a business, by business people ( not teachers with a few extra classes under their belt that couldn't cut it in the classroom) maybe our taxes wouldn't be so bad!

Mom,  I'm guessing you have kids that play football/lacrosse/soccer right?  I agree totally on the days off thing BTW.  These kids have waaaayy more time off than they need.  Nonetheless, I am confident that my 2 kids, who are into academics, music and dance, will never use this field.  Heres a crazy idea, why not spend 5 million bucks on EDUCATION!!

Wow, amazing how people think.  

Ok for everyone who's kids are into music, we'll pull all the dollars that go to that, not everyone partakes in music, why spend money there?


Eduction is not just books, it is about diversification and teaching team playing, even in a band, and other extracurricular activities.  

It is about getting them involved in other activities.  

To everyone who rejects these ideas...you'll be the first ones to call the police when the kids are loitering because they have no other activities.

You'll throw these same few dollars away on overpriced coffee at Dunkin Donuts instead.  

Support the kids activities in all areas, and get over that, "my kids will never use it" attitude.  

And there is a good reason schools are not run like a business, they have no competition!  Ever see a business without competition?  They do whatever they want, because you have no choice.  

Unlike F-M, Liverpool's stadium is used by the PE classes, football, field hockey, lacrosse, band, color guard, the community, etc. We need a new stadium. I hope Liverpool residents didn't vote 'No' because they listed to the whiny, rich folks of F-M. Wake up Liverpool, don't listen to what F-M is saying. We need and use our stadium and it's an embarrasment not to have one right now. Liverpool uses their stadium.

Thers lots of other things they could uses 4 million dollers for,  sports in these times is a luxury, kids arnt doing well in school,  we need to stick to the basics. the 3 r's.  VOTE NO!

The idea of a multi-million dollar playing field at a high school smacks of snobbery and elitism, which is just exactly why I left the district. I grew up there and I know that a new field could be a good thing, but artificial turf is a mistake of gigantic proportions in today's environment. However, I'm sure it will pass because inflated taxes fits in with an inflated sense of importance.

For half the price of plastic grass, a natural turf field can be installed with hydronic root-conditioning that would make it usable all year-round, even for concerts and non-athletic activities, which the entire student (and community) population could enjoy. They won't do that because "so-and-so school has Astro-turf, too".

Besides the enormous installation cost, plastic grass also requires much more maintenance and special equipment to keep in usable condition. The increase of athletic injuries on artificial turf and the very poor performance in bad weather is well documented and, in just a few years, they will have to pay again for a whole new surface. Modern installation practices of genuine grass fields guarantee none of those problems.

The charm of pretty green Astro-Turf has long since been lost to its history of unfulfilled promises, like staying pretty as years go by, so increasingly, major sports fields are switching back to Kentucky Blue. And, in an age where common sense dictates that we move away from oil-based products, I'd love nothing better than to see those students and their community move toward a healthy future, but it would amaze me if common sense prevailed there today.

Sport has it's place, but it seems today sport is more important to a lot folks than whether their kids can read or write when they graduate.  

Very well said Dan.  It does seem that common sense today is far shorter in supply than oil based products.

It is too bad the district drew a line in the sand and put up an all or nothing proposal.  I think many residents realize that the field needs to be improved, but they would have liked an alternative to the over the top stadium proposal.  Giving the voters a choice would have cut down on the polarization of this issue.
When I was at the polls, a turf supporter stated that the school distrcit is busing the seniors (who are 18) from the high school over to vote.  Is that even legal?

tstin69 just so you know FM is not all rich folks.  I live in FM and laugh so hard that all other towns think we are rich.  Yes, there are some wealthy people here,but just alot of regular families trying to make ends meet.  Please do not put that label on us until you actually reside here.  Thanks for the laugh.

Whats illegal about busing the 18 year old seniors over to vote.  They have the right to vote.

Perhaps if we spend millions of dollars on an artificial turf field we can prevent students from breaking into the District computer systems to cheat by changing grades, because they will be so actively working to improve their physical skills, that they will not have time for any extra-legal activities?  Perhaps our generous funding of these new athletic facilities will ensure that our student’s social consciousness will be raised?  And, then again, perhaps not!  Vote NO on this turkey!

I am sure that when you go to SELL your homes I am  you will market your homes using the School district as one of the tools that will sell your home. The realtors will tell you that people buy into this district because of the quality of the school. Lets support the infrastructure and use the grant money that is offered. I beleive it will support the community and also the value of a quality school.  Shame on you for not putting forth this type of effort on where the problem really lies... The people in charge of  establishing our ASSESSMENTS.....

I don't think it is illegal to bring the seniors but I can't believe the school can afford to do it.  Wasted gas money.  I do feel however unless you pay school taxes you should not vote.  These kids don't pay the taxes, their parents do.  Even if you rent you should not have a say.  Only Home owners, should that is who will pay in the end.  Also what I am amazed at is, my kids go to a small school - Class D we have nothing - and I mean nothing.  An we have won Sectionals without all the fancy stuff.  Nobody cries and complains they just live their lives. People seem to think it is a right to have what everyone else has. Sometimes it just doesn't work out and you don't have the same as everyone else. I agree spend it on the education.  These kids will survive. Put the money to upgrade what you have.  Another question, will it have gates and be locked all the time when school is not in session? Just curious.  I know a lot of schools do that to keep people out.  

The turf will be much better than the dirt because money will be saved in the long run. It will mean less maintenance for the field and the buildings. The dust and mud that comes into the school after a practice or a game is outrageous. It carries germs like MRSA and gets into the air and the vent system causing more frequent service for those components. Sports are very important for student development and many career possibilities. Lets face it. It's big business and creates multi-millionaires. The new turf is much safer than the old stuff, so go get it!

That's right - "Proud to be in this community"...

We'll need to sell our houses if this turf project happens because we won't be able to afford to pay our frickin TAXES that increase substantially as a result of the increased assessments.

Ever think of that?

If the field were only for use by a few high school football players, I would have voted against it. But it will support over 400 annual activities that include a wide variety of community use, so I voted yes. I also happen to think that it's a bargain to get it at $5 per $100,000. That funding mechanism won't be available in the future, so the time is now.

Comments like Adam's, which indicate that people will no longer be able to afford their homes because of a $5 annual tax increase are typical of the dialogue from the turf opponents. It is this level of exaggeration that causes the debate to spiral downward into name-calling arguments. It is ok to be against taxes, and we all pay an awful lot ot taxes just to live here, but we do so by choice.

My children do very well in school.  I also push the importance of being well rounded in all aspects of life, because if you are not you end up being very one sided. Unfortunately, selfish to.  However that is another debate in itself. I am also very proud to live in this community. Not all of us have loads of money; but we have good old family values and traditions to make up for that.  Can we please keep this in perspective.  It's a field.  The kids can enjoy it or not....what some people find important others do not.  I find academics, music, and athletics very important for my children; however I think this has been completely blown out of proportion.  
 It's funny, everyone is talking about things they are interested in for themselves and their children.  If the music program came up for improvement  ( and mine aren't old enough to utilize it yet) I would vote yes, because it is important for the school district as a WHOLE.  Kids are all gifted in different ways, that's what makes our community so wonderful - WE GET THAT idea here in FM.  The real problem is everyone is tapped out.  I don't care how much you make, Gas and Groceries, and Taxes are killing everyone.  ( Don't tell me you can't agree on this)  What I find so nice is voting on this topic is so cut and dry.  We know what the money is going for.  It isn't like our property taxes, annual school budget, state taxes.  Or the crap shoot presidential race we have coming up.  No mystery here....just a field and some bleechers, and a concession stand.  As far as keeping kids out of trouble, ED, it's the parents responsibility to kick their kid in the butt and tell them how to act. Not the schools, not the coaches, not anyone but the parents!!! If adults can't handle that then parenthood is not the way to go.  Unfortunately, we now have Super Nanny to help the idiots who should have never had kids to begin with.  But on a lighter note, I've taught my kids compassion, caring, and the importance of responsible living -   And my husband and I laugh because all we are doing is being responsible.  Remember it's a field for the community to gather in to enjoy each others company.  

4.6 million bucks don't grow on trees. It comes from the taxpayers and state grants. Then people wonder why companies are leaving the state in droves. Its the taxes in this state my friends. The state spends money like a sailor on shore leave. I can't belive people like in FM or Auburn thinks state grants are free money. Schools need to get back to the basics, EDUCATION our future generations.

im a student at the high school and people need to see and know the facts. the current stadium at the school is not good at all and is in poor condition. after every game, someone has to go out to the field and do hard work to get it back into good condition for the next game so none of the students, from fm or the opposing school, gets hurt. with a turf stadium, you dont need to worry about student hurting themselves due to the field and plus, no money will be required to fix up the field after every game.
now, im only a student so i dont pay taxes but i understand that the taxes in this county are high. but if it is the money that you are worried about paying, guess what, youve already paid for it. the state is using the tax money that you already paid to pay for this. so dont be complaining about $4.6 million dollars growing on trees.
this new stadium will provide this whole community a place to gather and watch high school sports at its finest. this turf stadium will give this community a place for good times and fellowship. vote yes

we are fm

I think..... you have no idea of what you are talking about.  Every FM student will be using the turf during physical education classes.  Get your facts straight!!!  You should be ashamed of youself voting without knowing all the facts!!!!  

I'm not against the turf stadium improvements nor do I not love my kids because I said no to this issue.  I'm against another tax especially a tax that benefits so few.  FM should figure out how to pay for the turf this with existing funding or do without.  The town of Manlius should find a project that would be accessible to everyone such as a public pool or recreation center.

I think that before we spend monies on this, Each and every kid should have drivers Ed. I've never seen a death due to what type of tuff was played on.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had this kind of debate and turnout for the political elections in this country?  You know....the ones that really matter.  And Adam, if you can't afford $5 for every $100,000, dude, you might want to reconsider your budget.

Hey Mom,
You can come into my class any day of the week to see what is going on in our schools.  Not only do we have to teach we also have to play parent, coach, physcologist and many other rolls.  Guess what?   I would not trade it for the world.  One more thing if they wanted to make the school year longer I would be all for it.  I'd like to see you teach a class full of hormones.  As for the Turf think of the $ you people would save on upkeep.  If you people live in F-M I'm sure you can afford an extra $5 :-)

I agree with MOM of A,B,C...I spent a lot of time attending meetings, visiting all three websites and reading plenty of editorials on this topic.  I'm most frustrated by the fact people are voting without knowing all the facts, but only what they perceive to be the truth.  I have not heard one argument against this referendum that holds any weight when reviewing and discussing the 'real facts'.
Cost -   $20.00 a year on a $400,000 house is less then what it would cost for a couple to go to a single movie.  Whether we pass this referendum or not - we've still paid these taxes - so a NO vote here only means some other school district gets to use the funds - so there is no valid, legitimate 'cost' argument.

Safety -   Anything we build is going to be safer then what we have today for both the athletes and the spectators.- No safety issues.

Turf - If you really think about it, it would be foolish of them to build this new stadium and then surface it with grass so it could only be used a few times a year and by a few teams.  Turf is the only option that even makes sense.  It's not proven to be any more dangerous then grass, it doesn't cost more to maintain, it's made of recyclable material and can be recyled.  At least part of the replacement cost will be offset with a fund.  Also, if 'safety' is your thing - should we not let our athletes play away games or in championship games -after all they are played on turf fields?

Community Use -   Did you know over 65% of the student base participates in an athletic sport - so this doesn't sound like it will be used by just a 'few'.  As well as the FM School district allows all the Recreation Programs to use their athletic facilities and use of this stadium would be no different.  Even Physical Education classes will be able to use the field.

Spend the money on 'education' - Are you kidding me - this school district has spent a tremendous amount on all kinds of education programs - why do you think we pay so much in school taxes to begin with?  I don't see why they can't spend a little bit of money on the athletic programs.  Athletics have been a part of education for many, many years and will continue to be - why shouldn't we invest in it as well?

I'm all for a 'well - rounded' education for my kids - who by the way will most likely never play a sport, but I"m confident they will attend sporting events and I would like a nice, comfortable and safe enviornment for them to enjoy and be proud of.  I believe this school board, which by the way is elected by the community, has done due dilegenence and has acted in the best interest of the community and the students - as they were elected to do - when putting this referendum together.  
I'm just amazed that anyone would vote no...

I'm a student at F-M and there are a lot more things that 5 million can be spent on like new textbooks or calculators. I'm also an althete that has played on turf; I think that it only causes more energy's and has no real benifit. Hey, has anyone thought that putting turf in is not only costly but it is also horrible to the enviorment and it  is going to need constant maitinance.
-Just consider that , O.K

The post from Mom of P & J is the most lucid thing I've seen on this issue. Thanks for your note.

I was appalled to walk into FayEl today and see the school administration, including the head honcho for this specific project - athletic director Rich Roy - standing in front of the polls. There were specific signs out front stating no rallying for either side within 100 feet of the polls. What kind of message does it send when the school administration sponsoring this project is standing at the head of the line? Talk about subliminal campaigning. And in regards to the seniors being bussed to the polls - it's illegal if done so during the school day and as far as it seems from hearing the news, FM is pulling another typical move of doing everything in it's power to get what it wants. Maybe the 5 million should go toward safeguarding the computer system so we don't have overly ambitious and overpressured students hacking into the system to change their grades by a few points.

As of the census of 2000, there were 31,872 people in Manlius.  During 2005-06, there are approximately 4600 students in FM schools.  So if 65% of the student use the field this would ~2990 students which is less than 10% of the population.  

My kids will be just fine with a grass stadium afterall we haven't turfed our yard yet and still play sports on it.

This isn't about money anyway...what's another $20 comparied to the thousands we pay each year.  These taxes are insane and it has to stop now.  

I'm sure everyone has experienced increased copays in healthcare.  Same principle here, if you use it then you pay for it.  Let the sports fans pay for the stadium.

All of you people have too much time on your hands.  Any of you who are putting down the teachers or district administration can fill out an application if you think you could do a better job.  You can find most applications right on the web.  

Please take a little time and focus your attention on the real topic.  Money makes people crazy....get a grip!

Hey FM,

Get off the ego trip. If you would let businesses into your exclusive community your taxes wouldn't be so high and you could afford a turf field. A lower income community just passed a 41 million dollar improvement to schools including a turf field and stadium. Eat your hearts out!

I don't think F-M should have the project because the school have to replace the field every 10 years, our taxes will go up, and the library is big enough for kids and everybody. If there's any room, just expand the computer rooms, and the cafe. The board just wants have our money so they could become rich and have us look like we have nothing. it's money issue.  We need to have a new board. This is so silly.

Danny Kilbride

F-M Super senior who's in special Education

Yes, it was only going to cost the taxpayers $5.30, the rest would come from State Aid. Where do you think the State Aid comes from?? It comes from all Tax payers of the whole state, that includes the Fayetteville taxpayers. So at the end it would cost more than $5.30. Its about time taxpayers got smart and started voting some of this useless stuff down

Drivers Ed or a new turf? GEE what sounds better to you??

To Mom of P and J:  To your comment about the district spending a tremendous amount on educational programs I have to say you've got to be kidding.  There is a study that compares our district to other districts with similar characteristics.  We fall behind in many catagories. One being foreign language  Many of the districts in the study introduce foriegn language at the elementary level.  Our school district waits until 8th grade. When I went to school forieng language was introduce earlier than that.  We do not have all day kindergarter yet. (I know the state has mandated it so it is coming at a price not disclosed)  For the wealth and education of many of the parents in this district it amazes me that the district is now more progressive in it's educational programs.  Maybe because a majority of our tax dollars are going to pay over-payed administrators. Over the years they obviously haven't put any money into the other facilites  in this district like gymnasiums.
That brings me to you next point about community use.  Youth basketball has a difficult time at best getting the district to open the schools to set up league play (no additional practice nights) Once those gates are locked around that stadium you can bet it will be even more difficult than it is to get gym space to allow the community to use it.  It will come down to a matter of liability that the school district will not want to accept.  
You and many mention the cost of $5 per $100,000.  This is the initial cost (we shall see)  How much will our annual buget increase to maintain this field each year?  In addition, let's look 8-10 yrs down the road when the turf needs to be replaced.  How much will it cost per $100,000 then?  Liverpool is a prime example.  They were just given a referendum where home owners were being asked to pay $38 per $100,000 to replace turf on a field that they have not paid off yet.
There is never really any choice of who to vote for for the school board.  Maybe now people will run for the board to ensure that their interests are represented.
In close, this referendum has brought out the worst in many, and I hope we can heal as a community.

I can't beleive that you could just walk in and vote, with out showing any ID. These people are suppose to be educators. How stupid can they be, to believe everyone would go on the honor system.

My kids are into music, acedemics and sports.  However, they play hockey and may also never play a sport on the turf, but that does not mean they may not use it.  They attend sporting events, PE classes and it would be nice to see FM host a sectional game for a fall sport.  This stadium was truly for the whole community.  I see the light now the only way to get what you want is to play dirty politics and tactics.  I find it amazing that Mr Palmer the lead against this did not even have it right when he told me our taxes are higher than anywhere around.  Take a look next door to ESM...that is much higher.  I find it very disturbing that the people who were out giving our kids(that were holding signs in support) the finger as they were driving by tonight.  Why not just drive by and not acknowledge.  Anyway just needed to vent the disappointment in the FM community this family has.  PS When you loose the sale of your house to a home in the West Genny district this is why.

VALCAP14- If people are chosing a school with turf and better sports facilities over education then they have some pretty odd priorities.  My brothers children go to FM.  To say they don't have alot is a joke.  What this school offers that so many small schools don't amazes me. My kids go to a small school and we have one field for all Varsity, JV and modified. Our AYSO can't even use our one field, have to make up fields.    It is a mess at times but that is life.  They still have succeeded and don't have half of what FM already has.  Fix the field you have or just keep complaining. I do have to agree everyone sounds a little spoiled at FM.  Lets face it eventually they would lock up the field so nobody damages it and the community was never going to get to use it anyway.  You can bet on that.

A note to TKALL.17

You're right. FM is not a registered district. If you were -only people who pay property taxes would be allowed to vote and you would have to show ID. My brother just got this changed in Lansing where Keiser came from. He and some neighbors sued the board.

Some thoughts on others comments. Agreed voting was a little too easy, some varification would not have been a bad idea. And as far as voting only being open to property/school tax payers i strongly Disagree because there has to be some reason the rental cost in the area is between $600-$800 perhaps more (for a 2 bedroom) monthly. The property owners would be poor business people not to include their tax costs in the rent, so in the end any tax increase would by logical standards affect renters as well, and i'd be willing to bet that let's just say for the sake of argument that the increase to them (property owner)is 5% that the renter would see an increase of between 8% and 10%. So in the end this affects everyone in some way and we should all let logic prevail.

Only people that should be able to vote are the ones that PAY "School Taxes" these are the people that will be paying for it......NOT A STUDENT...once they leave FM the tax payers are still here paying and paying....there is no money coming out of a student's pocket.....maybe if they had to come up with thousands of dollars in Sept. for "School Taxes" they would think twice. As a retired person where is the extra income going to come from with the rising of taxes....why should I leave the area having lived here all my life to keep FM Students happy.....most likely they will move out of the area and never return and I am still paying for "TURF" they "VOTED" for.

One difference between FM and other suburban districts who have approved turf stadiums is that FM has no marching band program. Having turf is invaluable during the unpredictable fall marching band season, and with 120+ families involved in a marching band program each year, that's a lot of votes.

Yeah for democracy! What might have been a crown jewel for the F-M district, possibly making it number one in the state has sadly been scrapped in favor of mediocrity. The results could be lost scholarships, a higher dropout rate, more bored kids cutting classes, using drugs, flipping out with guns, hacking computers, driving off cliffs instead of playing ball, skateboarding in streets, tossing litter, harassing seniors, making obscene remarks to passersby, ect. Those poor folks at F-M. Why not get rid of that oversized parking lot at the Towne Center and build a new trailer park there instead? It will lessen the heavy tax burden.

I believe if this proposal went out without the turf it would have passed.  A new stadium is needed, new seating, bathrooms and wheelchair access as well as security.  The people for the stadium say it will benefit the entire community I don't see that unless you are tied to a sports group... especially since it is proposed to have a 12 foot fence surrounding it.

Why not look for something like an indoor track where seniors can come and walk or the public could run during the winter months.  Or better yet... lets include DRIVERS EDUCATION in our school... the fees are way too much money for many folks in our community.  

Hey NaturalGrass,
My Mom taught in the city for over 30 years, I know it's not all just easy teaching everyday.  But you missed that end portion of my discussion on parents and responsibility.

this is to the MOM who said her two kids are into acedemics, music and dance.  Since there was clearly a lack of support for your school from you, you can be sure I will now vote against the next upgrade for music and the arts.  It is amazing how that is the only thing that is ok for this district to spend money on.  That just shows you and others like you can not see any further than your own nose.  Congratulations on your victory.

Hey Mom,
Well I did read what you wrote after I wnet back on becasue you wrote it after my posting.  Yeah you are the minority when it comes to that stuff it seems.  Maybe it is the district you are in who knows.  Many parents give lipservice and that is where it stops.  It does not really matter because the topic of the blog is turf.  I see it was voted down.  This is democracy at its best.  It is to bad the presidental election can't be determined by popular vote.

The vote has been conducted and the proposal has been defeated, again. The thought I have is "What happens now?". My experience tells me that the issue will be presented again in a "Take it or suffer the consequences" budget. In other words, vote in favor of the turf/stadium or your kids will walk to school, or the music program will be curtailed, etc. I have two suggestions for the future.
1) The school board elections will be coming in the Spring. Eliminate the entrenched members of the school board regardless of who they are and elect new members of the school board. I remember a remark made by either the school board president or the superintendent that "The school board is a well oiled machine". I'm tired of being the "oil" for this school board. It's time that the discussions and decisions made by this board are made publicly instead of during executive session (which I might add is illegal except for matters of personnel) and approved publicly, with a 9 to 0 vote in favor virtually every time. This school board is and has been arrogant. Have you ever attended a school board meeting? Try to get a public response to a question asked of the board. You'll get a private answer to a public question after the fact.
2) Institute legislation or boilerplate policy that there will be one budget presented to the public and only one budget per year. No more going to the well time after time during the year. The turf proposal wasn't an after thought by the school board. It was a planned calculated event. When the annual budget is presented, the proposals will be structured so that the taxpayer can choose what programs will be funded during the next year. Essentially, the taxpayer will have a "line item veto" on the budget items.
Finally, $50,000.00 for the school library is a pittance in comparison to the $4.7M overall proposal presented to the public. To the school board i say "Find the money for the library within the current budget allocation. There are contingency account from which you can get the funds". On the topic of libraries, didn't I just vote on funds for the library on Orchard St. in Fayetteville?

Why can't the Booster Club and all the people tearing down signs and making threats put more effort into raising the funds instead of having it on the school budget.?  Something like this has to be earned, not just paid for by all the taxpayers.  

I voted no - even if people focus on how "little" the project adds to my taxes, the fact is that we all pay taxes to the state, we are paying more than on the local tax hike.  Shame on the people that decided to piggy-back library repairs with this project, and try to make it a prominate part of the package.  The Maximum cost figure of 4.6 million?  WE know that there are cost overruns, extras that are not thought of until the first shovel is turned.  When it turns into a 6 million dollar project, would the state step in to pay the difference?  Grass was good enough for me - class of '81.

I think it is over for now.  The people have spoken.  Let's move ahead, look to the future and focus on security and safety issues.  Some people feel there was a lack of trust here.  FM had a task force that made recommendations, those recommendations were looked at and put off to the side.  Some of these buildings have major issues that need to be addressed lets take care of them.  Can we talk about doing stadium improvements or does it have to be an all or none thing.

Hey, Amy... Not "everyone in FM is a little spoiled"...Most of us aren't as you can see by the results. Don't stereotype......It's not nice...

Well, let's put this in perspective. Did FM reach out to other districts to ask what impact their new athletics related projects had on the schools and the community. I know in one district it is extremely positive and far reaching. Let's revisit the impact to the average family in FM using a 200 thousand dollar home as a starting point. Let's see... that's $5.30 per hundred(x 2) I think equals $10.60 per year.  You still with me???  That's hmmmm.... one less 12 pack for him and 1 less bottle of White Zin for her... Actually, you could have come to some kind of agreement in the household where, she gets to keep that bottle this year and he doesn't. Next year she forfeits her bottle and he gets his beer... It truly is that simple when the price is your students coming to school with more pride with new facilities and it's quite a phenomena what pride can do for performance.....  I think you blew it...

Leno - I agree with you.  This community really blew it!!!  It's a sad day for the FM community when most voters put personal issues ahead of what is good for the students - ultimately they are the ones that have lost out.  I would vote yes on any referendum that was going to make the enviornment for our kids better - whether it is music, arts, foreign language, new buildings, air purifiers(yes I heard that as an excuse to vote no!), etc even if my children were not directly impacted by any of the improvements.  I have a child with special needs - I could have certainly got on my high horse and brought up all the things wrong with this process and believe me there are problems - but I left my personal issues at home when I went to vote.  To vote no on this so we might get something else is just ignorant - one doesn't have to impact the other.
Now the community has in essense told the school that they would rather put patches on a leaky roof, when in reality it would have been more prudent to purchas a new roof - this approach will ultimately cost tax payers even more money for less facility.  If anyone reviewed the goals of this project, you would have seen that the proposal before us last night made the most/best business sense when considering the goals and issues trying to be resolved.  Trying to patch up what we have will only address some of the issues and will be money thrown away when we have to replace/expand the track.
To New Stadium/No Turf - Do you realize one of the arguments against this project was we would have a stadium that only would benefit a few - which wasn't true - but if we put grass in - which wouldn't substanially decrease the intitial cost - then the number of teams that could use the 'stadium' or events played on it would be drastically reduced!!! Also, why no Turf?  The kids play on turf at almost every away game and during sectional play - so again - are we not going to let them play away games on turf because it isn't safe?
To giving it a lot of thought - Liverpool had a 45 million dollar referendum not just to replace a 100,000 turf, but to upgrade facilities and a multitude of other projects.  It would NOT cost this school district $38. a year/per 100,000 to 'replace' the turf!  As a matter of fact there was a chance that the fund started to offset the cost would substantially decrease, if not cover, the entire bill.  Also, our students have shown time and time again that they excel in all areas of academics.  So obviously we are doing something right.  I'm all for all day kindergarten and foreign language - add them to the school - let's vote - I would vote for that too!  But how do you justify the cost( and it is substantial - facilities/staff, etc)  for full day kindergarten when our kids are already at the top of the academics heap?  Also, doesn't Full Day Kindergarten only impact a small percentage of the student base? I'm actually a proponent of full day kindergarten, but you have to put it in perspective.   Athletics is a part of the education process too - always has been, always will be - why can't we put thought and effort into this aspect of education as well?

To reiteriate what Leno said - we can argue the fine points and details for years to come - but ultimately we have lost the oppourtunity to instill even more pride in our students and it would have been amazing what this would have done for this community and students....I'm afraid we have lost the opportunity!!!

Just a few thoughts on this vote, and all budget votes for that matter in the FM district:  

Does anybody wonder why the district doesn’t require photo id or proof of residency at the polling place?  

Why this vote was even considered when the district itself is running a deficit?

Why was this vote considered at a time when a large bloc of our taxpayers (retirees) are seasonally residing in warmer (and more tax payer friendly) areas?

Can anyone verify as fact that FM seniors over 18 years of age were bused to the polling place during school hours? (I heard rumors, but have not been able to independently verify)

The various “VOTE YES” placards and signs people were holding on route 5 in Fayetteville, and the various yard signs stating the same paid – were they procured from taxpayer funds, or were they rightfully procured through booster club funds or otherwise independent means?

Is the FM booster club now willing to raise the funds necessary for this project now that it has been rightfully defeated, or will it again be jammed down our throats through another bloated budget?

To Mom of P and J    I sympathize. I'm not here to convince anyone that how they voted was good or bad. Speaking from experience, our new facilities have had a huge impact personally for us. Example(and true) I have a son who did nothing before 2 years ago but play nintendo, PS2 whatever...Grades were OK.. We have new facilities (stadium, tech center, weightrooms, etc). I can't get him to come home after school because he works out 4 days a week prepping for football AND HIS GRADES HAVE GOTTEN BETTER because he is such a different, happy, excited kid when he comes home. Oh, not to mentions he's lost 40 lbs. and can rip my head off... I swear to you, the impact on him has been nothing short of incredible...He's "proud" and it has made a HUGE difference on him. Yes, even in the classroom.... It impacts the students indirectly, also. New prospective teachers see the investment the community is making in student activities and are more apt to want to work there. Good teachers...the cream of the crop.. That translates to them being more attentive to the students and the students give it back in return. It "was" an opportunity to invest in the well being of all students and "IS" essential to them becoming well rounded individuals...  I sympathize.

Idea:  If some of you guys traded in your Beamers you could raise $ for the turf :-)  

johnny tremain....Too bad you are asking some these questions today...

I would like the school to ask for ID and proof of identity, but apparently this is not unusual and has been the way it has worked for years.  I would agree, I would like to see this process improved as well as having more then one polling place and some security during school hours as a preventitive measure for the students attending those schools.

I don't believe the school district runs a budget at a deficit, however, they have debt, just like every school district - don't you have loans?  The debt at this school district is only 2% of the legal 10% debt allowed to be carried by a school district for capital improvments - so they have been fiscally responsible when creating this debt, which 75% is offset with state funding.

The vote was originally scheduled in early December, but was postponed to review the turf material....once a new solution was researched and decided on, they scheduled the vote.  I don't believe it was intentially scheduled at this time of year - it's just fell on the calendar this way - when would be a good time?  Besides, everyone has the ability to vote through Absentee voting....

I do not know about the FM seniors being bused to the voting the polls.  I highly doubt it though, but if it turns out to be true, I would question this process as well.  I don't think it would have been done maliciously, but to encourage students to exercise their right to vote - shouldn't that be part of the education system as well?  They certainly didn't tell them how to vote and I have heard students argue both ways.  If the polling place was at the high school, would you have had a problem with them voting during school hours?

The school district only paid for material to educate the voters on the referendum - such as the postcard you may have received or reminders to vote.  Anything in favor or against the referendum was funded by individuals.

The school district may present another referendum to vote on improvements to the atheletic fields, but I doubt it will be 'jammed down our throats through another bloated budget'.  Budget votes are done separately from a referendum, as a matter of fact if you read the FM News, there will be a 'budget' vote coming up this spring as there is every year.  It seems referendums are placed before the public to get opinion on larger dollar item projects.

It sounds like you don't trust the adminstration of this schools district.  I'm not sure why, but I'm sure you have your reasons.  That's too bad, because they must be doing something right if we continue to have well-rounded, well educated children that earn all kinds of awards each year and a school that continues to be recoginized nationally.

First off I wasnt to say that i have regained a little hope for this area given the outcome of voting.  However it is necessary for people to be informed on this decision.

Did anyone consider the financial aspects of this other than the tax increase?  Does it make sense to anyone to finance a 10yr expected life field with a 20yr bond?  Add a little foresight and one might see the problems posed when the taxpayers are still paying off the first project while considering a second field or worse paying for the first and not getting a second.(you wouldnt finance a car for 10yrs and after 5 years of said financing you would still owe more than 50% since the majority of payments are interest which makes it more like paying for 1.6-1.7X fields at once during the next 10yr period in the case of the field)

Secondly, is it necessary to spend 5million (after maintenance on turf, insurance payouts for increased injuries because of turf, and paint schemes on turf) to make school more "enjoyable" and "enriching for students"? Did anyone consider the kids in city schools and how they would feel about playing on the nice synthetic fields of FM and other elitist schools when they dont even have fundamentals like books that they are allowed to take home because their district cant afford this allocation of resources.

People need to realize we are only as strong as our actions and clearly these are self motivated and lack foresight and morals and are borderline demeaning to the less fortunate districts.  Is it really necessary to flaunt FM's superior financial positions given their wealthy tax base?

Stop drinking the Kool Aid...

The web site, the buttons and signs all read $5.30, and all fail to mention the STAR rebate.  This is disingenuous at best.

STAR rebates were not given to folks on behalf of the School Board.  It is money that can be spent at the recipient's discretion.

The School Board arbitrarily taking my rebate is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

This was touted as being good for the community.  After a resounding defeating (for the second time), it would seem the School Board is not in touch with the community.

Some people just really don't get it - WE ARE SICK OF TAX INCREASES!   As a board - how about you start doing your job and come up with some other way of getting money for your projects instead of just sticking it to the taxpayers.   The towns automatically figured it out - that instead of raising assessments every 5-10 years like they did in the past if the do it yearly they can keep jacking up our town/village/city taxes.  So the schools stand in line right behind everyone else.

Look at Syracuse - now they want to freeze assessments when people reach 65 - great - where is THAT extra money going to come from now.  Look at Clay - they want the companies whom they let build all their places now pay for the fact that they were short sided on all the traffic problems.   If I was a business - and I saw Clay that wanted to tax me to be on Route 31, and I have no tax on Route 57 - guess where development will move now!

Our schools have just taken their direction from the state - KEEP TAXING ME - and eventually I will leave.

When I start seeing tax increases that are not 98% because of salary/expense - THEN I will start feeling better at voting YES.

The hurt voters put on the Turf Supporters can easily be attributed to "karma". They would have had a better shot getting this through if they hadn't tried to manipulate all aspects of the vote - deceptive and misleading information; a vote date when snow-birds are not in town; sport sign-ups conveniently held on the vote date, not enough booths at the one location (an attempt to have the half-hearted no-voters go home without waiting); supporters defacing signs of the opposition.
The fact that a few select Varsity athletes can't play on an over-priced turf field is not a "travesty" - over-crowded classooms, antiquated Fayetteville elementary and middle schools, no swimming pool - those should be our concerns.

Concerned....

The bond was for 15 years, not 20 and is dictated by New York State.  Yes, it is true, that the original project won't be paid off be replacement of the turf may be necessary.  But the turf is just a portion of this entire project and certainly not the majority of it.  I don't hear this arguement when you an addition to one of the schools is proposed, but you know you may have to replace windows before your finished paying off the addition.  You buy a house and finance it for 30 years - are you telling me you wouldn't expect to have some repairs before you have finished paying it off - won't you have to replace carpet or a roof?  And - yes, the board did consider this....they pledged to setup a fund to defray some of the costs of the replacement field.

The city school kids?  Nottingham is a city school right?

Nottingham has its own Olympic-sized pool.
Nottingham recently got a new $20 million turf field that took a year to implement.
What do they think?  They are probably 'laughing' at the FM students!!!

Makes 4.7 million seem like a great deal?  They spent $20 million for a stadium.
How do you think our kids feel when we show them they are not worth a new facility, but every other school they play has nice atheletic facilities - what message does that send?
I moved here 15 years ago and when I told someone where I lived - they immediatly said oh 'Fluffyville' - this reputation has been around a long time and not because of money we spend on athletics!

How about putting a driving range, putting green and practice bunkers on school grounds. Everyone wants to forget about the golf team. This would generate more interest in a sport that can help our kids throughout their whole lives. I can't remember the last corporate football outing I participated in.....

And rather than try to squeeze the last penny from the community taxpayers, why doesn't the booster club look to finance this project through not only private donations, but also through naming rights for the stadium. Buffooons Field has a nice ring to it.

Homes appreciate in value.  Weak argument.

Did you take out a 15 year loan to pay for your car?  No.  

Does anyone in the F-M district do anything other than cry about their taxes? Snooty rich people who want everything handed to them for free!!

GET OVER IT!!

Why can't everyone stop arguing about this and put the $ into classrooms and student academic programs.  They are laughing at us on the other side of the pond (Atlantic).  Look at the national Math and Science rankings.

I wouldn't take out a 15 year loan to pay for a car, because the entire car probably will not last that long - not a comparable example.
The stadium has a much longer life span then the 15 years to finance it, however just like a house or a car, you can expect to have to do replacement/repairs on the parts along the way.
Take out a car loan for 6 years - but may have to replace tires before finished paying....

My family and I moved to Manlius in the fall of 2005 after accepting a job in Syracuse.  We bought a home in Manlius because we liked the area and was looking forward to settling down and establishing roots after spending the last 15 years moving around as members of the U.S. Air Force.  Within a few months of us moving into our house it's value was reassessed and our taxes increased significantly.  Then we found out that not only do we have to pay Manlius town tax but we also have to pay village taxes as well.  It's was like a double whammy for us.  No one had explained the double taxation to us when we were looking at houses.  If our realtor had mentioned it we probably would have bought the house on Memory Lane instead of Candy Lane.  It's amazing what a difference a few hundred feet can make when it comes to taxes in Manlius.  Probably the biggest shock was the amount of school taxes we have to pay.  Thank god for the Star tax program or there would be no way we could afford to pay our taxes.  Not even a year after we moved in my wife and I decided we need to get out of New York as it is just too expensive to live here.  In order to achieve our goal I elected to come to Kuwait to work.  That's the only way we can put money away to move yet still be able to put gas in our vehicle, food on our table, and keep our house warm.  We do not live extravagently by any means and my wife is a frugal shopper but it was still difficult to make ends meet.  If I was still working in Syracuse our house would probably be in forclosure by now.  In today's environment where gas prices are raising sometimes daily, the cost of a gallon of milk or a dozen eggs jumps by leaps and bounds and we as taxpayers are getting hammered from all directions I applaude the residents of Manlius who had the forsight to vote down this stadium/turf project.  Sure $10+ a year in tax increases isn't much but when you add that to all the other increased costs we are having to bear, it's getting beyond a joke.  I'm sure there are other avenues available to raise the money if the desire is there.            

This came down to a value judgement on facilities.  If voters valued physical education and athletics, to go along with art and music as a vital part of one's total education, and worthy of sound facilities, they voted yes.  If they believed that these areas are beneath them and not important to a complete education, and worthy of an upgrade, then they voted no.

Taxes here are high and will always probably be high, because there is no real industry base to offset taxes.  DeWitt and East Syracuse are great places to live also.  They have lower school and property taxes because of the businesses that are there.  People choose to live here (F-M) because they don't want to live in a more commercially developed area.  With that comes a built in cost.

As for those who want the money to go to students and academic programs, let's see what happens with the budget vote in May.

20% of $4.6 mil = $920,000
Current replacement cost of the turf only = $650,000

Those are awfully expensive tires.

Put up a reasonable proposal that does not include turf and it will pass.  It could even be the same stadium, just no turf, and it will pass.

Tires for my BMW and Escalade are not cheap.Throw in 4 new snows for the nanny's Volvo and it adds up.

What does 20% of 4.6 mil represent?

I agree with Choices - WELL SAID - I stated earlier this would come down to personal issues and not the facts or details of the referendum.  I do believe that PE and athletics play just as much a role as art and music to one's total education and would vote YES to support any endeavor the school district presented to improve any area of education.

You choose to live here, you choose to keep the town/villages quaint, you choose to support a great school district - who's left to pay, but those that choose to live here.  You can't expect great things without having to pay...

The budget vote will be interesting as it looks like it includes a taxes increase.

This has been a great forum for discussion ( I don't believe we are really arguing as one pointed out).  Open discussion with varying view points is great for everyone and I've learned a lot in just a few hours!  Thanks for engaging!

Did any of you really believe that PE classes would use the stadium? Perhaps a few token classes here and there, but that would quickly fade.

The PE classes do not go outside now, except for a few rare classes in the early fall and late spring.  It has nothing to do with the mud or the grass or the fields.  It has everything to do with the time and the temperature.  It takes too long to go outside and too many students complain about the temperature.

Ask your sons and daughters at the high school.  

TO - A no voter....
I'm curious why you think it passes if it included grass instead of turf?  
Less events
Less student participation
Less sports
Not really any safer as the away games and championship games are played on turf?
Not any less to install the grass and maintain it...maybe a little cheaper in the long run, but I'd have to do the math on the per event cost...we'd get much more for our money with Turf.

If I thought this would pass with a grass field - I'd be all for it to, but I doubt it would.
I think it comes down to the basic principal stated by 'Choices'.  If you believe there is value in athletics/PE to a well rounded education you would have voted YES, yesterday - if not, you will not vote for this project, no matter what we put on the ground.

The board is supposedly looking for community input on which direction to go - they will tell you it doesn't make business sense to build this 4 million dollar stadium and put grass in - but if that's what the community wants - it's their money.

There are a great many people for whom turf was the issue.

Enough to have made the difference?  Maybe, maybe not. I think so.

20% represents the amount not paid by the State.

8% of the estimated 26000 eligible voters turned out to vote yes.

The people have spoken.

The school district runs buses between the high school and the middle schools every day.  Mainly this is for sports.  Depending on the sport that is played, students from one school must go to one of the other schools for practice.  This is because FM only puts one modified level team and draws from all schools.

These buses, however, are not restricted to students who play sports.  Any student may take the bus for any reason.  Sometimes students take them to make it easier to be picked up by Mom or Dad, for example, or to be able to walk home or to an appointment.  

I have played Baseball for a minor -league team ! For students to have artificial turf is just outright foolishness on the part of the people that wanted it ! It is a callous waste of money ! Besides , having artificial turf is not a good idea for students because of injuries ! There are enough injuries with players in the minors .Do the ones that want the turf want to keep their students that have potential ,throw it all away just because you want to keep up with the jones's. It is outright foolishness,And I hope this is never brought back up for a vote ! Another reason ,who wants their taxes to go up ? The economy isn't the best ,yet you want to spend useless amounts of money on something that is not needed  !

What helped make the difference was allowing everyone to vote... This was a tax issue and should have been decided by taxpayers and ONLY taxpayers

Don't we have more to worry about in our world today than a stupid sports field!?

hey mom of P and J sounds like you know where you want your kids to go to school next year!  Try convincing them that nottingham is better for them since they have a big pool and a stadium.  Oh yea, how many kids attend that school? Right a lot more.  Stop trying to keep up with the joneses i see this everyday when towns and villages around here demand new fire stations and police cars just because the next town has them.  I wish i had an 08 tahoe to fight crime in manlius, hahahahaha!! crime in manlius, what a joke!!!!

You wouldnt consider getting a new engine as a normal repair for your car would you, yea the whole car will still be there but that engine wont last 10 years, yea i said 10 just as stupid as a 15 year bond indenture for a 10 yr project

if you want the field so much then pay for it yourselves dont involve the taxpayers who have better plans for their hard earned money, they earned it let them decide which they did thank you very much!

Silent - I agree, the people have definitely spoken - Again. The democratic process lives strong - this isn't Russia, right?

And the 8% in favor is eerily similar to the portion of the general presidential elections that has gone to such individuals as John Anderson, Ross Perot and Ralph Nader - how's that working out for those guys?

I'm not trying to 'keep up with the jones' nor am 'I trying to shove wealth down the less fortunate' as some would elude.  No, I won't be sending my kids to nottingham - nor do I believe it is a better school - but when someone points out the 'poor city schools' - I feel I must point out the facts.  
I certainly am not suggesting we should get a field because everyone else around here has one.  The fact others have fields only comes up when the discussion of money and safety are presented.  
- I meerly look at the issues that they were trying to address and believed this proposal was a well thought out solution addressing all the problems identified.  It was as simple as that.  Obviously others did not agree this was the best plan to address the issues at hand, although it appears maybe for some it was about more.
 
It seems to me others are turning this into more then what it was...it was about upgrading an athletic facility - not about keeping up with China, not about craming in more curriculum, not about fixing the federal or state tax system, etc...

Also, I realize 8% is not an impressive number, but I wouldn't get so excited about 16% of the potential voters either.  It is very sad that only 24%/25% of community even voted.

I realize the 'community' has spoken(although I believe it was not about the referendum at hand, but more about all the extra baggage we face in the world today) and we will move on - the fact is we still have real issues to address with the field - so we will see what the next best solution will be and start all over again.

Leno,

Your idea is not feasible.  How does one decide a taxpayer?  Look at ownership records?  You own property you pay taxes.  That's easy.

But who pays the taxes?  If one parent works (and draws a paycheck) and the other doesn't, it could be stated that only the working parent pays the taxes.  What about grandma and/or grandpa living at house.  Do they pay taxes?

And what about renters?  Renters pay taxes too.  Just because they pay them indirectly (in the form of rent) does not mean they don't pay them.

So who else do you mean?  

Students and former students still living at home (or away at college)?  They probably voted FOR the proposal, if they voted at all.

All school votes (except for the board members themselves) are about taxes.  You can't change the rules for a proposition just to attempt to influence the outcome.

Mom of P and J:  I have really gotten a kick out of reading your postings.  
"Nottingham has its own Olympic-sized pool.
Nottingham recently got a new $20 million turf field that took a year to implement.
What do they think?  They are probably 'laughing' at the FM students!!!
Makes 4.7 million seem like a great deal?  They spent $20 million for a stadium."
-- Do you have ANY idea about construction? I do, and you do not have ANY clue about construction costs!

"You choose to live here, you choose to keep the town/villages quaint, you choose to support a great school district - who's left to pay, but those that choose to live here.  You can't expect great things without having to pay..."
--Tell THAT to my family who has been farming in the F-M district for well over 100 years and that pays almost $70,000.00/year in school taxes and who make about $8,000.00/year salary (and that's saying that nothing "major" happens on the farm! If we weren't local, you can go ahead and pay more for your beef, milk, wheat products and soy based items so that it can be shipped in.

I have NO problem voting for education.  I went to a nice "country" school that did not have fancy fields at all. Hmm, I ended up just fine. If we wanted renovations or new equipment, guess who raised the money? Look at Lafayette Schools. They did not have a football program and who raised the money for that? Oh, that's right, the PLAYERS and COMMUNITY!

Get over yourself and bring your nose down a notch. A new field will not "create super kids"; the parents have the #1 influence on that. The students need to be taught that things in life don't come "free". That they have to work for what they have in life. But according to some posts on here, if you live in the "F-M" district, it is "automatically" handed to you.

Come over and work one day on the farm and EARN that $5.30, I promise it will take ALL day. You will have A LOT more respect for that "measly” $5.30 and will choose a little more cautiously where you spend it!

Based on how this facility was to be used, an artificial surface is only prudent.  It was not going to be your father's astro-turf.  It was going to be a product that was going to be softer and more forgiving that natural grass.  It would not compacrt and become a hardpan.  It would not have to be taken out of service to allow itself to re-grow.

As for the democratic process working, yes the majority did prevail.  My wonder was how educated were they on this issue.  I did attend many of the public hearings.  And yes, they were filled with yes voters.  Last I checked, there was no one at the door asking your voting preference before you walked in.  For over 4,000 NO votes cast, a very small percentage of them were at any of these meetings.  If you thought you would be made to feel lilke a 2nd class citizen by speaking your mind and asking questions, then shame on those that would have made you feel that way, and shame on you for allowing yourself to think of yourself as 2nd class.

At the final public hearing, the board finally did correct misinformation that was out there.  I feel that was too little, too late.  This should have been done all along.  When, and if this does come up again, I urge EVERYONE to attend these meetings and ask questions for yourself.  Don't rely on someone else telling you what you should think.  That goes for both sides of this issue.

As for the local Eagle Buliten, I, along with many more will be cancelling our subscriptions over them taking money to run adds that misrepresented the issue.  They were asked to stop, yet they continued.

Yep, that must be it.  The 4000 people who voted no were simply not educated on the issue.  

As an F-M grad, and one of the uneducated majority, I can only blame my lack of intelligence on money not being spent in the right places within the district. Imagine how much smarter I would have been if I could have had participated in a handful of phys ed classes out on a turf field.....

And please don't tell me that I didn't know the facts because I didn't attend one of the arm-twisting, factually misleading "Vote Yes" cocktail parties. There was plenty of information available to he/she who was willing to look into the topic. My vote was made without blinders on.

The vote is behind us - let's move on and look forward to the upcoming budget proposal and its 4-5% increase in our taxes for something that truly affects all children in the district - teachers' salaries and benefits, maintenance and the cost to operate the facilities as they are.

Well...based on some of the comments here, it does appear some did not get the correct information prior to voting.  There was information printed in the Eagle Bulletin that was represented as fact and was not.      

Country Girl - I'm sorry you felt you had to make this personal.  You don't know anything about me and how I had to grow up and you make assumptions that I don't know what it's like to go without.  Believe me nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm new to this area(only 15 years), but even then FM had this reputation of being 'elite'.  After living here for a while I don't really see it.  Can someone explain to me why FM gets such a bad rap?  I don't recall this type of discussion when ESM was voting on their Turf Referendum and it passed.  10 of the 13 schools FM plays has turf - so why is it when we ask for something simliar for our kids - we are considered snobby and elite and way off based asking for such a luxury for our kids?

Why is it okay for ESM, Nottingham, West Genny, Liverpool, etc to enjoy this type of facility, but not FM?  I'm not looking to rehash the turf thing or taxes or whatever with this question...I'm just trying to understand this FM reputation thing.

Idid not grow up around here either. My entire family did though. Poor F-M, they don't get to have what the other schools have, boo-hoo. That has to be one of the most childish statement that I have heard yet.
LUXURIES should be EARNED, not GIVEN to our children. That's how I was raised, shame on me for being raised in a farming family and understanding that.
Use all of your energy and start a fundraiser, have the parts of this stadium "donated" by a class. Our school did that and we had a very modest stadium, but the students earned it and because of that, actually had more respect for it. Look at the LaFayette district and how many students attending there have no respect for any facility because their parents don't pay taxes. I am all for making sure that they have the basics, but not the luxuries. No one said that F-M had to "go without" sports.
And I am not the only person to take this personally. I mean, seriously, some one actually CRIED because it was voted down. There are A LOT worse things in this world to cry over.
If it had been separate votes, I would have voted YES to the library and any "fixes" to the building, maybe adding a foreign language, proving driver's ed,..., but I, (along with obviously many others) will not vote YES to turf!

It's okay for F-M to have a facility similar to the others.  

The problem is the community doesn't want it.  92% of the eligible voters either voted 'No' or failed to turn out.  

It seems unlikely that there were thousands of 'Yes' voters who stayed home on Wednesday.  The 'Yes' voters made more noise on this issue than any local issue I have ever seen, and still only 2200 people voted for it.

How about polling the community with a list of options?  This was probably dead at the word "Stadium".  High schools don't need Stadiums.  Just like high schools don't need Field Houses.  

They need a field with some bleachers and gymnasiums.

Get over yourself Mom of P and J and stop bashing everyone who practices their right to opinion by claiming they are misinformed when in reality you sound more uninformed and more of a source of elitist propaganda than sound information, something that got everyone so worked up about this in the first place.  

If it is so necessary for kids to have everything their parents can give them than why is the richest man in the world warren buffet giving away his billions to charity and not his kids claiming that they "should have JUST enough to be successful but not enough to not be".  Think about that if your capable of such philosophical thought.

Clearly i wont hear you arguing that they dont have enough to be successful because clearly they have shown they have enough to not be  as evidenced by the few students who used their spare time, advanced FM computer technology, and hacking knowledge for no good!

Fact is, to truly teach our kids to be responsible and successful we must teach them how to earn it themselves and not give it to them especially when the vote showed we the community feel we give them enough!  I think you will be suprised to find out more drug cases in FM than nottingham despite the population disparity, cause for this is simple- FM kids have money to buy drugs and i know they are not working two jobs for this extra money!!! Proof is in the pudding, always!

Morever, you sound more like your on the board of directors for the district than a concerned mom at this point and i dont know what is sicker.  Get off your a$$ and get your rich board members and elitist friends to pay for the damn project yourselves like the farmers in lafayette and pompey did not two years ago now and you can get those tax breaks you elitists always cry about.

"You can fool most of the people most of the time but you cant fool everyone all the time"- Bob Marley  (even when more than half are in florida or dont even care to vote on such a silly calculated referendum"

Let look at some motivations here

teachers love it, why?   Increase in taxes increases salaries duh

construction business loves it why?  new contracts! and guaranteed money flows

town politicians love it, why? more tax = revenue to play with and more wiggle room!

real estate agencies love it, why?  "better school's" raise home appraisals which make their commissions higher

SOME students like it, why? their teachers tell them its a good idea, i already told you why teachers like it. cant blame them for anything

snobs like it because their snobs, are you a snob mom of p and j? Yea sure your not you just have all the time in the world to post 3 times a day with your 9-5 job

also remember it doesnt take an economics, finance, and law major to point these things out, most people already get it at most levels

however, its necessary when people act like their experts in these fields when they are clearly not.

Countrygirl made really good points i feel and so did the students who are way ahead of their age and voted no and didnt listen to their self servant teachers and mothers who like to gossip about prestige and mask it with words like "good for the community" and "educational".

Guess your going to have to talk about other stuff now because count on all the members of the district getting voted off next year, everyone isnt going to let you waste their money anymore by simply "reformulating" the same crap idea.

Be happy with what you got remember coveting thy neighbor is sin

Cant wait to turn down more silly ideas- Dan from manlius

Go lay down already MOM of P and J your talking out of both sides of your mouth

"i am not trying to keep up with the joneses"

then 1 day later...

"Why is it okay for ESM, Nottingham, West Genny, Liverpool, etc to enjoy this type of facility, but not FM?  I'm not looking to rehash the turf thing or taxes or whatever with this question...I'm just trying to understand this FM reputation thing"

Seems to me that you are!

And finally i would like to say 5 dollars compounded for 20 years at 5% annual increases is thousands of dollars added on to your already 1000+ tax liability currently for a 100k home paid every year in annuity.

And by the way who the hell owns a home at 100k in FM isnt the median home around 200k? such a blatant trick yet again

these arent the convenient one time expenses or a simple pack of cigarettes glass of wine thing you math disinclined speak of.  

We are talking about its more like adding 5% to gas prices every year something anyone wouldnt like i dont care who benefits from it.  God you people annoy me.

Mom of P and J,

Let me spell out just some of the reasons FM has a reputation...

Go to the high school. Look in the student parking lot at the cars that are better than the teachers cars.  Mom and Dad have provided a car so that their son or daughter don;t have to ride the bus, or so that Mom and Dad don;t have to pick up their son or daughter after practice or whatever.

Read about the students who felt a need to commit a felony so that they could alter their grades to appear to be better than they are.

Remember the two students who cut school, did drugs, and killed themselves by playing in their parents car in a place they didn't belong.

Need I go further?

Not everyone fits that mold.  But enough of the student body does, so that reputation is out there.

To the proponents of the proposition and to the school board:

Your task is to find and ask the people like me, who voted against the project, why we did so.  Why me?  Because I have voted in favor of every school budget while I have lived here.  I have voted in favor of every proposition except two while I have lived here (this one and the last stadium proposition).

These propositions (this one and the last one) lost because people like me who normally vote yes, voted no.  You need to find out why we voted no and then adjust your proposal accordingly.  You didn't do that.  If you don't do it before you put forth the next proposition on a stadium, we will vote no again.

The people who voted no solely because of the tax increase (for the most part) are the same people who vote no all the time.   Most of the time their votes are outnumbered.  Pay attention to their opinion, but do not blame them for the defeat you have suffered.  The proposition was defeated because people like me, who normally vote yes, voted no.

Hey realistic.  Why did you vote no????

I apologize if some of you feel I was 'bashing' that was not my intention.  I was just expressing my opinions just like everyone else was - I didn't intend to 'bash' anyone - as a matter of fact I tried my best to word my reponses nicely.  If I didn't do that I apologize.   This will be my last post as the discussion has now just become a personal attack on someone trying to express an opinion and have a discussion.
I have learned a lot, especially how things can be taken out of context and the meaning quickly twisted around.
As one example - I only mention other schools with turfs for two reasons and in direct response to other posts...
1.  Because someone asked how other kids would feel playing on a turf field at FM.  So I simply responded back with how do our kids feel playing at other schools with turf fields including at least one city school because that was the example used in the question I answered.
2.  Because I wanted to understand why it's okay for those communities to have this luxury and it be okay and no one thinks that they are snobs, but if FM requests one we are way out of line and are snobs?  This was meant to be a general question and not one directly related to the Turf - it could be any proposal that included something this controversial and it wasn't meant to be why can't we have it because others do - it was simply an attempt to understand this awful reputation that F-M has.
I didn't want a turf field because other schools had one....I voted yes, because it was part of a solution to solve the issues at hand and I simply agreed with the approach.  
BTW - I'm not on the board - just an informed citizen and I do have a job outside of the home and work long hours to earn every penny.

Also, I have lived in other areas of the country and F-M doesn't even come close to being elitest compare to some of the other high schools in this country.  I'm not saying there are not issues and bad apples here - but I can tell you this school district is not as bad as everyone makes it sound.  

I hope the board does take 'Realistics' suggestion and not only listen to proponents, but more importantly listen to folks that did vote no in hopes a solution can be developed that will be agreed upon by all.

anyone else happy mom of pj called it quits?

I had no idea how many stupid, jealous people there are out there!  Let's see - not too bright, not too rich. Wonder if there's any correlation there? Keep voting to save those $5 bills - we will build something completely over the top - maybe include VALET PARKING for the kids' Land Rovers. (They need them when the Mercedes are put away for the winter). And a few luxury boxes would be a nice touch. And you think you're angry now? Just wait - the best is yet to come!! BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Remember - we paid for the new Y so the kids wouldn't have to sweat at the country club. Wait'll you see the new FM Domed stadium with retractable roof and air conditioning!!! We'll probably book a couple of SU games in it just because we can!!

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To "Realistic" and others who voted no; you say the YES voters should "... need to find out why we voted no and then adjust your proposal accordingly.  You didn't do that.  If you don't do it before you put forth the next proposition on a stadium, we will vote no again. "

Don't threaten another NO vote if you aren't reached out to.  Don't make this a puzzle to solve for the "YES" people.  There are BOE meetings every month and there is an open forum at each of these meetings.  Those private people making up the stadium committee are still there and able to listen to you.  If you do want to see a soution to this facility problem, then please, go to the next BOE meeting that you can and explain to them what your specific reasons were.  The AD's phone number is waiting for you to call.  Offer your specific input and join them in working for a solution acceptable to everyone.

The bottom line here is that there is a facility that badly needs to be upgraded to handle the increasing load of the district's teams and PE classes.  Whoever provides the ideas to get to an acceptable solution doesn't matter.  What matters is that it gets done right.

What we need to do is stop wasting time and effort trying to understand the NO-Bodies. They will always vote against progress. Maybe next they can get rid of paved roads - horse drawn wagons and dirt roads were good enough for our forefathers! Let's devote our valuable time to creating a stadium with every bell and whistle we can possibly think of. And for $5, we'll let them inside the moat to see it. Can you hear it? It's the sound of capitalism and progress. It's coming! And the No-Bodies can't stop it. E Pluribus Unum!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!